What could make morality objective?

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Skepdick
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Re: What could make morality objective?

Post by Skepdick »

Age wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:40 am
Skepdick wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:24 am
Belinda wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:19 am Both are monistic. My version implies that absolute idealism is the better form of monism. I don't know if Age implied materialism is the better form of monism but I infer materialism from his version.
Both can be construed as monistic.

You can start by saying that everything is objective; and then make the case for special the exception that is "subjectivity".
You can start by saying that everything is subjective; and then make the case for the exception that is "objectivity".
Or, you could start by just LOOKING AT what is ACTUALLY IRREFUTABLY True, and then just SAYING/EXPRESSING 'that', ALONE.
That's precisely what I did!

I looked. I saw. And then I expressed the irrefutable fact that you can call it all "subjective"; or you can call it all "objective"; or you can divide it all into "subjective" and "objective"; or you ca choose not to draw the distinction!

It's just a choice!
Belinda
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Re: What could make morality objective?

Post by Belinda »

Age wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:37 am
Belinda wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:19 am
Skepdick wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:02 am
Which is precisely why the objective/subjective distinction is bunk.

What makes things anything is the same thing that makes anything anything; and it's the same thing that makes the anything/nothing distinction.

So what's the purpose of making the distinction?
Both are monistic. My version implies that absolute idealism is the better form of monism. I don't know if Age implied materialism is the better form of monism but I infer materialism from his version.
I have NO 'version', other than thee Truth, ALONE.

I was just expressing a Truth that NO could REFUTE.
You have privileged access to your own beliefs. Anyone can disagree with what you profess to believe, but they can't reasonably disagree that your beliefs are what you believe.
Iwannaplato
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Re: What could make morality objective?

Post by Iwannaplato »

Belinda wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:58 am
Age wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:37 am
Belinda wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:19 am

Both are monistic. My version implies that absolute idealism is the better form of monism. I don't know if Age implied materialism is the better form of monism but I infer materialism from his version.
I have NO 'version', other than thee Truth, ALONE.

I was just expressing a Truth that NO could REFUTE.
You have privileged access to your own beliefs. Anyone can disagree with what you profess to believe, but they can't reasonably disagree that your beliefs are what you believe.
Actually they can. There are a number of ways this can be well justified, but a very common one is to point to behavior. If someone says they believe the races are equal but repeatedly treats one race very differently from others, we can challenge their assertion of what they believe.

Language use can often indicate someone believes something other than what they say they believe. If they repeated refer to things being out of their control, but when they engage in a discussion of free will vs. determinism they assert that we are totally free, we can challenge their assertion of what they believe.

There are other ways one can be justified in doubting what people say and even honestly believe they believe.

And we can be mistaken about what we believe. This does not mean that the person is lying. Our egos and super egos present us will all sorts of motivations to believe we believe one thing when in fact we believe another. And also we can have contradictory beliefs about something.
Belinda
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Re: What could make morality objective?

Post by Belinda »

Iwannaplato wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:06 pm
Belinda wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:58 am
Age wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:37 am

I have NO 'version', other than thee Truth, ALONE.

I was just expressing a Truth that NO could REFUTE.
You have privileged access to your own beliefs. Anyone can disagree with what you profess to believe, but they can't reasonably disagree that your beliefs are what you believe.
Actually they can. There are a number of ways this can be well justified, but a very common one is to point to behavior. If someone says they believe the races are equal but repeatedly treats one race very differently from others, we can challenge their assertion of what they believe.

Language use can often indicate someone believes something other than what they say they believe. If they repeated refer to things being out of their control, but when they engage in a discussion of free will vs. determinism they assert that we are totally free, we can challenge their assertion of what they believe.

There are other ways one can be justified in doubting what people say and even honestly believe they believe.

And we can be mistaken about what we believe. This does not mean that the person is lying. Our egos and super egos present us will all sorts of motivations to believe we believe one thing when in fact we believe another. And also we can have contradictory beliefs about something.
Telling lies or holding to a distorted cognition are tangential matters . I did consider mentioning these but I thought it was better to keep the discussion to its elements.

If you go along that tangent you are in an infinite regress. "He said he believed the world was round but he was lying. He believed he was lying but he conveniently forgot his belief was a lie. He did however believe that he did not always think straight, and that he believed all the time the world round.And so forth.
Age
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Re: What could make morality objective?

Post by Age »

Skepdick wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:49 am
Age wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:35 am To understand and know thy Self, as well as to make FULL sense of ALL-OF-THIS.
That sounds like a pointless game.
When, and if, 'you' also come to find out these things, then you might see things completely DIFFERENTLY, correct?

Also, why does knowing thy Self and making sense of ALL-OF-THIS [things] sound like a 'pointless game', to 'you', "skepdick"?
Skepdick wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:49 am What's the purpose of understanding and knowing thyself, as well as making full sense of all of this?
Whatever you CHOOSE.

It is NOT up to 'me' to tell 'you' what to think and decide.

But, to 'me', there is a very specific reason and/or purpose, and what that is might be VERY DIFFERENT, to and for 'you', that is; when and if 'you' ever find out who and what thy Self is, EXACTLY.
Skepdick wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:49 am What will you DO with all of your understanding, and your self-knowledge once you make full sense of all this?
Since I have already done this I have been learning how to circumnavigate the beliefs and assumptions that 'you', adult humans beings, have, in the days when this is being written, in order to communicate better with 'you', human beings, HOW 'you' can also find and see the meaningful answers to Life, Itself.
Age
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Re: What could make morality objective?

Post by Age »

Skepdick wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:51 am
Age wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:40 am
Skepdick wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:24 am
Both can be construed as monistic.

You can start by saying that everything is objective; and then make the case for special the exception that is "subjectivity".
You can start by saying that everything is subjective; and then make the case for the exception that is "objectivity".
Or, you could start by just LOOKING AT what is ACTUALLY IRREFUTABLY True, and then just SAYING/EXPRESSING 'that', ALONE.
That's precisely what I did!

I looked. I saw. And then I expressed the irrefutable fact that you can call it all "subjective"; or you can call it all "objective"; or you can divide it all into "subjective" and "objective"; or you ca choose not to draw the distinction!

It's just a choice!
But you can also call 'it' or EVERY 'thing' whatever you like. But what has any of this got to with what you claimed above?
Age
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Re: What could make morality objective?

Post by Age »

Belinda wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:58 am
Age wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:37 am
Belinda wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:19 am

Both are monistic. My version implies that absolute idealism is the better form of monism. I don't know if Age implied materialism is the better form of monism but I infer materialism from his version.
I have NO 'version', other than thee Truth, ALONE.

I was just expressing a Truth that NO could REFUTE.
You have privileged access to your own beliefs.
For your information, I have NO beliefs.
Belinda wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:58 am Anyone can disagree with what you profess to believe, but they can't reasonably disagree that your beliefs are what you believe.
Moot.
Skepdick
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Re: What could make morality objective?

Post by Skepdick »

Age wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:17 am For your information, I have NO beliefs.
I too believe that I have no beliefs!
Age
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Re: What could make morality objective?

Post by Age »

Skepdick wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:22 am
Age wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:17 am For your information, I have NO beliefs.
I too believe that I have no beliefs!
But it is only you here that BELIEVES this.
Skepdick
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Re: What could make morality objective?

Post by Skepdick »

Age wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:27 am
Skepdick wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:22 am
Age wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:17 am For your information, I have NO beliefs.
I too believe that I have no beliefs!
But it is only you here that BELIEVES this.
Are you now informing me that you believe that you have beliefs?
Age
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Re: What could make morality objective?

Post by Age »

Skepdick wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:28 am
Age wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:27 am
Skepdick wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:22 am
I too believe that I have no beliefs!
But it is only you here that BELIEVES this.
Are you now informing me that you believe that you have beliefs?
NO.

Did you really just MISS what I just said and pointed out?

As can be clearly seen here, once again, these people really did misconstrue things because of their BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS.
Skepdick
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Re: What could make morality objective?

Post by Skepdick »

Age wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:36 am
Skepdick wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:28 am
Age wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:27 am

But it is only you here that BELIEVES this.
Are you now informing me that you believe that you have beliefs?
NO.

Did you really just MISS what I just said and pointed out?

As can be clearly seen here, once again, these people really did misconstrue things because of their BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS.
That can't be what's happening here. I believe that I have neither beliefs nor assumptions.
Belinda
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Re: What could make morality objective?

Post by Belinda »

Age wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:17 am
Belinda wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:58 am
Age wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:37 am

I have NO 'version', other than thee Truth, ALONE.

I was just expressing a Truth that NO could REFUTE.
You have privileged access to your own beliefs.
For your information, I have NO beliefs.
Belinda wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:58 am Anyone can disagree with what you profess to believe, but they can't reasonably disagree that your beliefs are what you believe.
Moot.
I bet you believe you were born, and that you will die .I bet you believe you were once a child, and your vivid memories of your childhood really happened much as you remember them. These memories are part of what you believe, and are unlike anyone else's memories.
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Sculptor
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Re: What could make morality objective?

Post by Sculptor »

What could make morality objective?

How many times has this question appeared on this and other Forums?
Too many times!
And how many times have any proponents of the idea even tried to field a single moral rule which is objectively sound?
Not once!

What could make morality objective?

Nothing!
popeye1945
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Re: What could make morality objective?

Post by popeye1945 »

Sculptor wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:10 pm What could make morality objective?

How many times has this question appeared on this and other Forums?
Too many times!
And how many times have any proponents of the idea even tried to field a single moral rule which is objectively sound?
Not once!

What could make morality objective?

Nothing!
EXCELLENT!
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