Is morality objective or subjective?

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Skepdick
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Re: Is morality objective or subjective?

Post by Skepdick » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:07 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:04 pm
That would depend upon the degree of their impairment but it would not be intersubjective
Their impairment would invalidate any attempt at objectively assessing what the colour was
Color is a social construct.
Wavelength is empirical IF you accept the SI units.

surreptitious57
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Re: Is morality objective or subjective?

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:12 pm

Skepdick wrote:
I have no way to prove to you that I am hungry - why do you say that my hunger is a fact then
I could take an X ray of your stomach and if it is empty you may be telling the truth
But if it is full then I know that you are probably lying though I could not be certain

I could observe you since your last meal so then I would know how long it was since you had last eaten
After a certain time had passed I would know you were hungry because everyone has to eat eventually

surreptitious57
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Re: Is morality objective or subjective?

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:16 pm

Skepdick wrote:
how many colors are there on the electromagnetic spectrum
The spectrum is continuous and goes from ultra violet to infra red
The number is probably a positive integer but it could be infinite

surreptitious57
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Re: Is morality objective or subjective?

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:19 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Color is a social construct . Wavelength is empirical IF you accept the SI units
Does colour not exist as a mind independent phenomenon then
Was the Universe monochrome before the evolution of the eye

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henry quirk
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Re: "o what color would the sky be if all scientists were visually impaired?"

Post by henry quirk » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:24 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:05 pm
henry quirk wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:54 pm
The quality we call blue is in the light, not our heads, so...
Blue
Blue
Blue
Blue
All the shades (the quality, the information) are in the light: we just give 'em names.

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henry quirk
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"Does colour not exist as a mind independent phenomenon(?)"

Post by henry quirk » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:28 pm

Color (the quality, the information) is in the light, so -- yeah -- it's mind independent.

We name it, ascribe meaning to it, but color exists independent of you and me and him and her.

surreptitious57
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Re: "o what color would the sky be if all scientists were visually impaired?"

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:29 pm


BlueBlueBlueBlue

All of those are clearly blue even though they are different shades of blue
The entire spectrum may have more shades that can actually be detected

So how many different colours / shades on the spectrum then
O about as many angels that can dance upon the head of a pin

Skepdick
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Re: "o what color would the sky be if all scientists were visually impaired?"

Post by Skepdick » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:38 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:24 pm
All the shades (the quality, the information) are in the light: we just give 'em names.
How many shades are there "in the light"?

How many names do you need to label ALL of them?

surreptitious57
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Re: Is morality objective or subjective?

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:40 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Skepdick wrote:
Color is a social construct . Wavelength is empirical IF you accept the SI units
Does colour not exist as a mind independent phenomenon then
Was the Universe monochrome before the evolution of the eye
Wavelengths and colour and photons and the entire electromagnetic spectrum are all entirely mind independent phenomenon
They existed long before we did and will carry on existing long after we have ceased to exist so are not dependent on us at all
Colour is though subjective from our own perspective but it is not something that we imagine only something that we perceive

Skepdick
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Re: "o what color would the sky be if all scientists were visually impaired?"

Post by Skepdick » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:43 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:29 pm
All of those are clearly blue
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivocation
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:29 pm
even though they are different shades of blue
Is this a shade of blue or a shade of red?

Color
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:29 pm
So how many different colours / shades on the spectrum then
So how come we don't have words for all of them?

Skepdick
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Re: Is morality objective or subjective?

Post by Skepdick » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:49 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:40 pm
Wavelengths and colour and photons and the entire electromagnetic spectrum are all entirely mind independent phenomenon
They existed long before we did and will carry on existing long after we have ceased to exist so are not dependent on us at all
That is just the narrative we, humans have invented, because "photons" are part of the standard model.

But they only really "exist" in the Mathematical equations of physics: https://physics.stackexchange.com/quest ... oncept-lik

surreptitious57
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Re: "o what color would the sky be if all scientists were visually impaired?"

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:51 pm

Skepdick wrote:
So how come we dont have words for all of them
We dont even know how many there are so we would need to know that before we actually start naming them
This is why physicists call most planets and stars by numbers rather than names as there are too many of them
The number line is infinite but there are only a finite number of words in any language or even in all languages

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henry quirk
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Re: "o what color would the sky be if all scientists were visually impaired?"

Post by henry quirk » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:54 pm

How many shades are there "in the light"?
How much information does the light carry?
How many names do you need to label ALL of them?
As many as I need to suit my purpose.

Skepdick
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Re: "o what color would the sky be if all scientists were visually impaired?"

Post by Skepdick » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:57 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:51 pm
We dont even know how many there are so we would need to know that before we actually start naming them
The reason you "don't know" how many colors there are is because there's no objective way to split up the light spectrum into categories.

If you split up the spectrum into 2 categories then there are 2 colors.
If you split up the spectrum into 200 categories then there are 200 colors.

How many categories should the spectrum be split up into?

surreptitious57
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Re: Is morality objective or subjective?

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:59 pm

Skepdick wrote:
That is just the narrative we humans have invented because photons are part of the standard model

But they only really exist in the Mathematical equations of physics
They do exist in the mathematical equations of physics but they also exist inside stars and black holes and space
They are therefore not merely an abstraction but an observable phenomenon that exist in actual physical reality

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