Agent Smith wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:09 am
My naïvety "shines through"!
Anyway, are you sayin' there's no such thing as objectivity? Perhaps our definitions don't match!
I am saying that you can play it whichever way you want. The distinciton itself is bullshit.
We could both agree that "there is no such thing as subjectivity" and then proceed the conversation from this reference frame. The subjective/objective distinction itself is objective - as the distinction exists in my mind.
OR
We could both agree that "there is no such thing as objectivity" and then proceed the conversation from this reference frame. The subjective/objective distinction itself is subjective - as the distinction exists in my mind.
All meaning is socially constructed.
Oh, ok! While I find "bullshit" too strong a word to use to refer to the apparent flexibility we seem to have realized exists in this arena, I still feel there's no better descriptor.
As far as I can tell, meaning as entirely "socially constructed" seems as much fecal as meaning as not, out there, independent as can be, unmolested by our imperfect minds.
Agent Smith wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:28 am
Oh, ok! While I find "bullshit" too strong a word to use to refer to the apparent flexibility we seem to have realized exists in this arena, I still feel there's no better descriptor.
I have no idea what you mean by "better descriptor".
From my viewpoint there's no such thing as privileged descriptions. Nobody gets "closer to reality" than anybody else.
You are no more; or less objective than me in describing this color as red; when I describe it as blue.
Agent Smith wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:28 am
Oh, ok! While I find "bullshit" too strong a word to use to refer to the apparent flexibility we seem to have realized exists in this arena, I still feel there's no better descriptor.
I have no idea what you mean by "better descriptor".
From my viewpoint there's no such thing as privileged descriptions. Nobody gets "closer to reality" than anybody else.
That's an intriguing comment! I believe we're on the same page ... more or less. There's a sense in which subjectivity rules the roost.
Agent Smith wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:34 am
That's an intriguing comment! I believe we're on the same page ... more or less. There's a sense in which subjectivity rules the roost.
Not quite. What I am implying is that the implication (of descriptions) matters far more than the descriptions themselves.
It doesn't matter whether I describe this color as blue, and you describe it as red so long as we both understand its imperative meaning: "STOP AT THE INTERSECTION"
Agent Smith wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:34 am
That's an intriguing comment! I believe we're on the same page ... more or less. There's a sense in which subjectivity rules the roost.
Not quite. What I am implying is that the implication (of descriptions) matters far more than the descriptions themselves.
It doesn't matter whether I describe this color as blue, and you describe it as red so long as we both understand its imperative meaning: "STOP AT THE INTERSECTION"
I see. So it's democratic in a sense. I thought there was another concept for that which is to say objectivity still is meaningful but not in some kinda socially constructed sense.
Agent Smith wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:28 am
Oh, ok! While I find "bullshit" too strong a word to use to refer to the apparent flexibility we seem to have realized exists in this arena, I still feel there's no better descriptor.
I have no idea what you mean by "better descriptor".
From my viewpoint there's no such thing as privileged descriptions. Nobody gets "closer to reality" than anybody else.
You are no more; or less objective than me in describing this color as red; when I describe it as blue.
Take away social reality and what remains is biological reality including need for the individual to survive in any given environment.
Agent Smith wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:28 am
Oh, ok! While I find "bullshit" too strong a word to use to refer to the apparent flexibility we seem to have realized exists in this arena, I still feel there's no better descriptor.
I have no idea what you mean by "better descriptor".
From my viewpoint there's no such thing as privileged descriptions. Nobody gets "closer to reality" than anybody else.
You are no more; or less objective than me in describing this color as red; when I describe it as blue.
Take away social reality and what remains is biological reality including need for the individual to survive in any given environment.
The biological "reality" exists within the social "reality".
Everything you know about biology you learned from society.
Agent Smith wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:48 am
I see. So it's democratic in a sense. I thought there was another concept for that which is to say objectivity still is meaningful but not in some kinda socially constructed sense.
There can be no other sense. Language/symbols exists in the context of society. It's used by society. Language transmitters and language receivers. Language users.
Agent Smith wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:48 am
I see. So it's democratic in a sense. I thought there was another concept for that which is to say objectivity still is meaningful but not in some kinda socially constructed sense.
There can be no other sense. Language/symbols exists in the context of society. It's used by society.
Here I must beg to differ for one simple reason - science!
Agent Smith wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:48 am
I see. So it's democratic in a sense. I thought there was another concept for that which is to say objectivity still is meaningful but not in some kinda socially constructed sense.
There can be no other sense. Language/symbols exists in the context of society. It's used by society.
Here I must beg to differ for one simple reason - science!
Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:30 am
I have no idea what you mean by "better descriptor".
From my viewpoint there's no such thing as privileged descriptions. Nobody gets "closer to reality" than anybody else.
You are no more; or less objective than me in describing this color as red; when I describe it as blue.
Take away social reality and what remains is biological reality including need for the individual to survive in any given environment.
The biological "reality" exists within the social "reality".
Everything you know about biology you learned from society.
True. However I have faith that biology, along with other sciences, is a life-enhancing concept.
"Life " says B! I mean experience . Experience is the philosophers' stone that is both element and catalyst and can't be reasoned away by the most sceptical .