henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:03 pm
You kill The State and some of that goes *poof*. There's always gonna be dirty dealers no matter what system you use or regs you impose. Simplify and make such shenanigans more difficult.
Price collusion is like 5 phone calls, one facebook private message group for ten minutes. Over a beer at a G7 meeting, 4 minutes while getting a group massage at a Bilderberg group meeting. Following by simultaneous happy endings. Price collusion, if there is no one to possibly slap your wrist, is easier than the easiest warehouse logistics problem. It's like deciding who will call for the Uber.
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or the loss of free markets in an oligarchy or with monopolies?
As I say: I got no problem with natural monopolies. Without The State, monopolies have a natural scope. And they fall with the next big thing.
How could you possibly know this? Why would they fall? Their existence allows them to control R & D. Sure they might fall now and then, but while they are there no free market. And the next lottery winner company can eliminate free market also.
As for oligarchies: hard to establish without The State.
Come on. An oligarchy is when the state is overtaken by the private sector. No state and no restrictions on corporations, they are the state. And every single corporation is precisely not a democracy. They are regions of top down communism/fascism.
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It's still be billions of contracts and you need someone to decide if someone broke it.
Well, I said fewer courts, not no courts. And if the law is simple, then contracts are simple.
Yes, but you are just waving a magic wand and saying they are simple. But a supplier and a receiver still need to know dates, payment, schedules, penalities, amounts of products. Absolutely none of that changes if there is no state. They still have to have the exact same expectations.
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Sorry, but it's the harsh reality. You can have a lot less courts if you have nationalized industries. The government bureaucrats just make their decisions. No courts. (Do not assume that I am remotely interested in nationalized business). But once you have free markets, your need someone to decide on those things and contract law, lawyers and court processes follow in droves.
Simplify the law (and hang the lawyers). Privatize everything.
As I said none of that reduces needed clauses in a contract.
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For ten minutes, then you will have oligarchies, an end to democracy and utter elite control. In fact we have been transitioning this way for decades.
You have that cuz you have The State.
Nope. Look at the East India Company. They ran countries, had armies. That's what would happen. No regulators, no state to protect patents and property. Corporations become states in every respect.
And it is the State that makes corporations corporations. They are granted priviledges by the state that we do not have. You think without a state they are just going give up that priviledge? Have you had much to do with CEOs and investors?
Hang the democrats. We'll always have elites: without The State they're limited to self-financin' their Dr. Evil plans.
They will be states. Really, they already are.
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So, how much money do the banks get to create (causing inflation).
Not one shiny penny. Hang the bankers.
So, no loans?
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what about banks being able to loan money they don't have.
If they ain't got it: they can't loan it.
that puts most of the capitalists with power against you, so good luck. You won't have liberals, socialists or centrists because of many of your ideas. And you just gave the finger to banks and wall st. They will quietly ignore this part.
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You are against corporations?
As paper people? As insulation for actual people? Absolutely.
So, how do you get rid of corporations in your version of a free market?
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Sure, you know, where facebook and the others make their real money, the coming internet of things where everything thing we do is monitored by private actors. I mean, walking down the street, turning on a vaccuum cleaner, who we meet, every single thing. Who regulates that if not the state? The companies whill scream it is interference with free enterprise. And in a sense their dystopia will be/is free enterprise.
Ah, okay. Like with everything else I'm talkin' about here, we aren't gonna get relief by appealin' to The State (ask the pedo to babysit your kids, why don't you). And like everything else I'm talkin' about here, those platforms can only do what consumers allow. If, tomorrow, everyone dropped facebook, facebook ceases to be.
Yeah and if the sun farts a blue whale appears in my pocket. I can make up stuff also.
Of course, that ain't gonna happen anymore than folks will drop The State.
Ah, thank you.
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Or, there are no legislators?
Tell me: what do you think I mean when I say they'll swing in the breeze?
I didn't know if it was the ones you didn't like or all of them. Hence the question.
It's be the wild west for a while. The largest corporations, some of whose names people don't know, will take over, eat the smaller ones and wield de facto state power.
Your position is ironically like Marx's or really Engel's withering away of the state. Of course it sounds like you want a pure coup, and Marx assumed there would be an interim state. But you both have a magical sense about what happens when there is a power vaccuum.
Ask any drug dealer what happens when a drug lord goes down.
Ask any honest CEO in a private conversation what his company would do if there was no state to enforce contract law, protect property and patents and protect him or her from other companies rapacious industrial espionage, copyright violations, theft, sabotage and more.
A thousand Putins, Maos, Mussolinis would be created the moment the state was gone.
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They'll just hire enforcers.
As they should: nuthin' wrong with collection agencies.
Private armies. And a collection agency means nothing without a state. You gotta go fuck people up and they would.
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McDonalds with hire a security company to collect debts, punish bad customers, punish late suppliers or anyone they think has breached a contract.
As long as the business (not corporation) or it's proxy isn't unjustly takin' life, liberty, or property: I'm not seein' a problem.
I feel like I am talking to a child and I don't usually with you. Justice? There would be no state. Power and justice would be money based only. Not even a pretense of anything else. They already kill people unjustly, now it would be open season.
Speak for yourself. I self-employ: I've dealt with welshers. And, no, I'm not disclosin' details.
You have no dealt with a corporate with a private army that figures it's worth taking that busines out from under you, or indenturing you or driving you off the map of being seen by customers. You think they would hesitate to run a protection racket and show up at your door once a month. Who's going to fucking stop them? And if you want to say taxes are a protection racket ask someone who the mob has been tapping if it ends up being the same thing really, so peachy.