Is Bigotry Just A Failure of Imagination?

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

ForCruxSake
Posts: 496
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:48 am

Is Bigotry Just A Failure of Imagination?

Post by ForCruxSake » Mon May 01, 2017 10:51 pm

Came across this article, today. Is it 'throwing light on' or 'going light on' empathy lacking bigots?

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... ?CMP=fb_gu

Thoughts?

User avatar
Harbal
Posts: 3899
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Is Bigotry Just A Failure of Imagination?

Post by Harbal » Mon May 01, 2017 11:07 pm

ForCruxSake wrote: Thoughts?
Yes, I have them all the time. Some days I find I simply can't stop thinking. It's remembering what I've been thinking that's the problem.

uwot
Posts: 3630
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:21 am

Re: Is Bigotry Just A Failure of Imagination?

Post by uwot » Tue May 02, 2017 5:10 am

I think the key phrase is this:
"...wouldn’t it be worse if people were racist because they had fully imagined the emotional lives of members of other races, yet still didn’t care about their unjust treatment? Whereas if bigotry is a failure of imagination, it’s less a matter of people being awful and more of their being somehow mistaken."
I can see how a turn of phrase might influence how we think of the people referred to, but it's a bit optimistic to hope that pointing out to racists that the targets of their hatred are human will cure them of their bigotry. Still, there's one way to find out. I shall try telling the next racist I encounter that if only they were a bit emotionally smarter, they wouldn't be racist. (Think I'll wait for a small one.)

Walker
Posts: 4776
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Is Bigotry Just A Failure of Imagination?

Post by Walker » Tue May 02, 2017 6:11 am

Bigotry is the result of an overactive imagination that controls and enslaves the afflicted bigot.

The bigot is surrounded by a four-dimensional template of imagination.
- The template is a shield, like the atmosphere shields the earth.
- It encases body and mind.

Beingness radiates from people.
- The beingness radiation from the other person, reflected photons and all, hits the bigot’s template shield.
- The template shield of imagination that surrounds the bigot then reshapes and reforms the beingness radiation from the other person.
- After being reformed and filtered by the template shield, sometimes to the extent of becoming unrecognizable when compared to the reality of the person, whatever remains of the original beingness radiation from the other person, penetrates into cognitive functions of the bigot.

What forms the template?
- Conditioning and indoctrination, among other things.

If cured of the affliction, the bigot becomes master of the imagination, not the slave. The imagination is then free to grow larger than it was, when it was caged as only a defensive shield that warped reality.

ForCruxSake
Posts: 496
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:48 am

Re: Is Bigotry Just A Failure of Imagination?

Post by ForCruxSake » Tue May 02, 2017 8:58 am

uwot wrote:?.. it's a bit optimistic to hope that pointing out to racists that the targets of their hatred are human will cure them of their bigotry.
I'm with you on this one... Although, I think I may well be with you on most points you make.

His theory, whilst charming, seems 'forgiving' and a bit of an out for the bigot, to me.

ForCruxSake
Posts: 496
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:48 am

Re: Is Bigotry Just A Failure of Imagination?

Post by ForCruxSake » Tue May 02, 2017 9:08 am

Walker wrote:Bigotry is the result of an overactive imagination that controls and enslaves the afflicted bigot.
Nice one. Every now and again, it's lines like this that make me bow to the power of your command over words.
Walker wrote:If cured of the affliction, the bigot becomes master of the imagination, not the slave. The imagination is then free to grow larger than it was, when it was caged as only a defensive shield that warped reality.
Where's the chorus line? I want to jump in and be one your backing singers, on this one! :)

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 6938
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Is Bigotry Just A Failure of Imagination?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue May 02, 2017 9:21 am

Everyone's a 'bigot' when they don't think the same way you do.
''a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.''

Hmm. I would say that covers more or less every person on the planet. There should be another word for the kind of person who uses the word 'bigot'. 'Bigotiser or bigotist': 'A disingenuous person who uses the word 'bigot' to bully and silence those who disagree with their self-serving political agenda.'
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Tue May 02, 2017 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

uwot
Posts: 3630
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:21 am

Re: Is Bigotry Just A Failure of Imagination?

Post by uwot » Tue May 02, 2017 9:29 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Hmm. I would say that covers more or less every person on the planet.
Nah. It's one thing to disagree, quite another to be intolerant.

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 6938
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Is Bigotry Just A Failure of Imagination?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue May 02, 2017 9:31 am

uwot wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Hmm. I would say that covers more or less every person on the planet.
Nah. It's one thing to disagree, quite another to be intolerant.
As I said, just about everyone on the planet. What exactly does tolerant mean anyway? Who decides who should be the 'tolerator' or the 'tolerantee'?

Bigot: 'late 16th century (denoting a superstitious religious hypocrite): from French, of uncertain origin'. Apparently a favourite expression of the Normans was 'Bi God' (by God!) which didn't go unnoticed by the French. Interesting.
Isn't it funny the way people will take a word and make it 'mean' whatever they want it to.

uwot
Posts: 3630
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:21 am

Re: Is Bigotry Just A Failure of Imagination?

Post by uwot » Tue May 02, 2017 1:42 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:As I said, just about everyone on the planet.
Well, if you are defining a bigot as anyone who doesn't agree with absolutely everything, I can't see how you could exclude anyone.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:What exactly does tolerant mean anyway? Who decides who should be the 'tolerator' or the 'tolerantee'?
I think that might need a case by case investigation. What does anyone do to qualify as a tolerator? Is it any more than not being bothered by what others do?
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Bigot: 'late 16th century (denoting a superstitious religious hypocrite): from French, of uncertain origin'. Apparently a favourite expression of the Normans was 'Bi God' (by God!) which didn't go unnoticed by the French. Interesting.
Well etymology has its moments.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Isn't it funny the way people will take a word and make it 'mean' whatever they want it to.
That's how language works, if it didn't, bigot would still be 'Bi God'.

User avatar
Arising_uk
Posts: 11155
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:31 am

Re: Is Bigotry Just A Failure of Imagination?

Post by Arising_uk » Tue May 02, 2017 2:14 pm

I think this used to nearly define what it was to be British, i.e. 'tolerant bigots'. :)

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 6938
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Is Bigotry Just A Failure of Imagination?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue May 02, 2017 7:15 pm

uwot wrote: That's how language works, if it didn't, bigot would still be 'Bi God'.
Not exactly. It's a bit more complicated than that, and it's not particularly helpful when a useful word is rendered meaningless through misuse or overuse (or worse, when it's used with a 'meaning' that is the exact opposite of its true meaning, especially when there is nothing to replace it). We might as well not have language at all if that's the case. Calling someone a 'bigot' or a 'racist' doesn't end an argument. You might as well say 'you're fat' or 'your eyes are too close together'. Personal insults can be part of an argument, but they don't constitute one. They make an argument neither stronger nor weaker (contrary to the myth). Words like 'bigot' and 'racist' get thrown around in arguments like confetti (and often by those with something to hide and has a need to convince others that they are 'good people'). Genuine rabid racists don't take it as an insult anyway. In fact they are usually proud to call themselves that. What distinguishes them to a person is their irrationality and complete lack of scientific understanding. No doubt you will come back and say 'what's a 'rabid racist? There are 'degrees' of 'racism'.' Don't ask me. I'm not the one who watered the wine down to the point where it's just water. Ask the ones who use the word all the time. I'm forced to add the word 'rabid' because the word on it's own doesn't mean anything, similar to the way you now have to say 'University student' instead of just 'student', because it's now politically correct to call every child from kindergarten upwards a 'student'.
Is someone a 'racist' because they work till late at night and have to get a work-provided taxi home but is scared to, because of the prevalence of sex attacks on young female passengers by creepy male muslims? Now you will say 'that's just a minority'. That may be so. But it's difficult to tell who the 'minority' is when you are stuck in a taxi with them, on your own. Is it 'sexist' to request a female driver (not an option btw). Of course, she isn't allowed to ask for a driver of her own culture (if they exist now), because that would be 'racist'. Better suck it up and hope for the best.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Tue May 02, 2017 8:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

ForCruxSake
Posts: 496
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:48 am

Re: Is Bigotry Just A Failure of Imagination?

Post by ForCruxSake » Tue May 02, 2017 8:07 pm

uwot wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Isn't it funny the way people will take a word and make it 'mean' whatever they want it to.
That's how language works, if it didn't, bigot would still be 'Bi God'.
If it ever did mean that... It seems as if it's as debatable as the issue of bigotry itself. :)

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=bigot

(For those who can't be arsed, the link says that the term is of "unknown origin", that the OED does not support the given etymology, which is "an old theory, not universally accepted", but then in its wisdom explains why it does.)

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 6938
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Is Bigotry Just A Failure of Imagination?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue May 02, 2017 8:12 pm

I put 'uncertain origin'. That doesn't alter the meaning or give an excuse to make it 'mean' whatever you want it to mean. Would you care to give your definition of how you are using it, for when it crops up next?

ForCruxSake
Posts: 496
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:48 am

Re: Is Bigotry Just A Failure of Imagination?

Post by ForCruxSake » Tue May 02, 2017 11:01 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: I put 'uncertain origin'.-
There's a difference between 'uncertain' and 'unknown'.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:That doesn't alter the meaning or give an excuse to make it 'mean' whatever you want it to mean. Would you care to give your definition of how you are using it, for when it crops up next?
I'm not sure who you are addressing but I don't believe I altered any meanings, or attempted to use it in any way other than that which others seem to have been able to easily understand. My previous post merely sought to shine light on the etymology. Of course, you could be talking to uwot. I can't answer for him

However, f you are addressing me... then, no, I don't care to define my meaning with you. There doesn't seem to have been an issue of definition until you brought it up. It's not entirely clear what you actually mean by it, as your first post addressed bigotry as the act of dissenting and then, when it was pointed out to you that the requisite 'intolerance', required for it by definition, was actually different to dissension, you then seemed to continue, with disdain, about the way others use the terms 'racist' or 'bigot'.

It's can get very tedious, for me, plowing through your demands on posts and then it just seems to descend into unwarranted chaos and personal attack. The big philosophy boys are much better at dealing with your need to deconstruct language, than I am. It's interesting watching how they deal with your logic. I shall jump in if I have anything to add, if that's okay with you?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest