What are the advantages to behaving morally?

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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prof
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Re: What are the advantages to behaving morally?

Post by prof » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:50 am

uwot wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 11:39 am
Vegetarian taxidermy wrote:
Being considerate of others is what holds society together.
...I accept that being considerate is socially cohesive, but you haven't really addressed the question; who decides what is socially acceptable?
Living successfully, living ethically, is acceptable in the main. There are some who might object, "You're killing me with kindness :!: " but even they have every reason to be grateful.
See this book that just came out this year https://www.amazon.com/LIVING-SUCCESSFU ... B01NBKS42C

Then, after studying it, tell us if you have an idea as to the acceptable way for people to conduct themselves. Or, at least, give us your review of the document: ought the concepts in it find their way, somehow, into the school system? They will, if you help get them there! Should this knowledge be exposed to educators?

Thanks for giving us your impressions on these topics.

commonsense
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Re: What are the advantages to behaving morally?

Post by commonsense » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:41 am

commonsense wrote:
Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:44 am
prof wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:29 am

8) I can nform you that Dr. Katz has for your convenience reduced the price of his new ethics book to under One Dollar U.S. Here is a link to https://www.amazon.com/LIVING-SUCCESSFU ... B01NBKS42C
The publishers would not permit the author to make it free of charge altogether. So he did the next best, and priced it at less than a dollar. ....Lots of Philosophy in it @!!! Moral Philosophy - and research ...working on transitioning Ethics into a science. Everyone (except Spinoza, Locke, Bentham, Mill) says a Science of Ethics is impossible. What say you? :?:
Wow!
How to Live Successfully is well written, both comprehensive and succinct at the same time. Katz not only codifies the attributes of being an ethically healthy person, but also gives readily comprehensible explanations of important concepts from value science and its subsets. The pervasive sentiment of the book is perhaps best captured by the following:

”Scientific Ethics when applied will encourage the development of individuals who intuitively know the right way to choose in tough situations because of the habits they have formed from early childhood, due perhaps to their parents applying the findings of this new science; or due to teachers in the field of early education applying Ethical Science.”

For me, a child of the era of Ozzie & Harriet, the very fact that ethics needs to be studied in order to attain good ethical health is saddening. Where has my generation failed to pass on our lessons and examples in such a way as to make the act of composing value as intuitive as breathing?

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Greta
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Re: What are the advantages to behaving morally?

Post by Greta » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:22 am

I only just posted this Epicurus quote on another thread. It's still on my PC's clipboard and sums up the OP's question for mine:
It is impossible to live a pleasant life without living wisely and well and justly (agreeing "neither to harm nor be harmed"), and it is impossible to live wisely and well and justly without living a pleasant life.
Basically, trying to be generally decent brings more happiness in the long term than the alternative.

Belinda
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Re: What are the advantages to behaving morally?

Post by Belinda » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:52 am

Commonsense wrote:
For me, a child of the era of Ozzie & Harriet, the very fact that ethics needs to be studied in order to attain good ethical health is saddening. Where has my generation failed to pass on our lessons and examples in such a way as to make the act of composing value as intuitive as breathing?
Do you think that need for improvement always implies the existence of degeneracy ?

Due to the power of free media our generation is learning faster than any previous generation. True, many media are infiltrated by bad people who are greedy and lack compassion, but we mostly know who those bad people are which is an improvement on the good old days.

commonsense
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Re: What are the advantages to behaving morally?

Post by commonsense » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:30 pm

Belinda wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:52 am
Commonsense wrote:
For me, a child of the era of Ozzie & Harriet, the very fact that ethics needs to be studied in order to attain good ethical health is saddening. Where has my generation failed to pass on our lessons and examples in such a way as to make the act of composing value as intuitive as breathing?
Do you think that need for improvement always implies the existence of degeneracy ?
Of course not. I did not intend to give you that impression. Sorry.
Belinda wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:52 am
Due to the power of free media our generation is learning faster than any previous generation. True, many media are infiltrated by bad people who are greedy and lack compassion, but we mostly know who those bad people are which is an improvement on the good old days.
Yes, of course faster than any previous generation, but what you are learning about ethical values should have been instilled in you by a prior generation by the time of your 3rd birthday. Mea culpa.

commonsense
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Re: What are the advantages to behaving morally?

Post by commonsense » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:18 pm

uwot wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 11:39 am

...I accept that being considerate is socially cohesive, but you haven't really addressed the question; who decides what is socially acceptable?
uwot’s question can be answered either with broad brushstrokes or after in-depth deliberation. This is a case—who really decides what is socially acceptable—where I give little credence to the slogan, “Money talks”. Instead I wonder if the true arbiters of socially appropriate behavior are the social ethicists. Or are the classical philosophers the ones who have defined what is acceptable in society today? Could it be that our institutions fulfill this role? Perhaps it comes down to what is legal is acceptable and what is not is not. Just off the top of my head, I would argue in favor of the ancients, however I could just as easily be convinced otherwise. So, uwot, how would you begin to get at the answer of your own inquiry?

Belinda
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Re: What are the advantages to behaving morally?

Post by Belinda » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:21 am

commonsense wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:30 pm
Belinda wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:52 am
Commonsense wrote:
For me, a child of the era of Ozzie & Harriet, the very fact that ethics needs to be studied in order to attain good ethical health is saddening. Where has my generation failed to pass on our lessons and examples in such a way as to make the act of composing value as intuitive as breathing?
Do you think that need for improvement always implies the existence of degeneracy ?
Of course not. I did not intend to give you that impression. Sorry.
Belinda wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:52 am
Due to the power of free media our generation is learning faster than any previous generation. True, many media are infiltrated by bad people who are greedy and lack compassion, but we mostly know who those bad people are which is an improvement on the good old days.
Yes, of course faster than any previous generation, but what you are learning about ethical values should have been instilled in you by a prior generation by the time of your 3rd birthday. Mea culpa.
I am not sure that your generation has failed in that way. Are you working from impressions? I suppose I do so, and my impression is that young people today are learning faster than ever before. By "learning faster" I mean learning faster how to get on with others, and to view rights and wrongs with more knowledge of past wrongs and past goodness.

Parenting is more difficult in times of rapid change. The two world wars changed parenting with regard to morality, for the better in my own experience. I guess that my own grandparents lacked the insights of my parents who lived through the two world wars.

commonsense
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Re: What are the advantages to behaving morally?

Post by commonsense » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:45 pm

Belinda wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:52 am
I am not sure that your generation has failed in that way. Are you working from impressions? I suppose I do so, and my impression is that young people today are learning faster than ever before. By "learning faster" I mean learning faster how to get on with others, and to view rights and wrongs with more knowledge of past wrongs and past goodness.

Parenting is more difficult in times of rapid change. The two world wars changed parenting with regard to morality, for the better in my own experience. I guess that my own grandparents lacked the insights of my parents who lived through the two world wars.
Great post, thank you. I don’t feel that you and I are all that entirely far off from each other as it might appear on initial comparison.

For example, I agree that youths learn at a much more rapid pace than their elders. In fact, it is my impression that young neurons fire much more rapidly for all purposes than old ones do. I judge this from seeing that the pace of life appears to be faster for each succeeding generation. If you are doubtful, I would urge you to witness the slower pace of speech and the longer reaction times allotted for humor, say, in the 1950’s on television v. anything streamed from anywhere today Of course, this is based on anecdotal experience, however my guess is that research would confirm that the pace of life, and with it the pace of learning, has been quickening over time. All of this, I believe, is consistent, if not in complete agreement, with your comments.

Where we differ, I suppose, is on the matter of learning how to get along with others, and how to distinguish between moral rights and wrongs. While it is true that knowledge of past rights and wrongs is vaster and much more easily accessed than ever before, the kind of learning I was referencing included more than knowledge. I was thinking of the kind of learning that leads to the practical application of cognitive knowledge. Here, and I wonder that you may agree, I am referencing the KSA’s (knowledge, skills and attitudes) of learning. So, on this point, the learning of manners and civility, moral courage and rectitude, it is my impression that social media provides the evidence that there are many for whom these KSA lessons have failed.

I agree that change makes parenting more difficult. That certainly could make parenting under added stress a factor in the mortality of polite society. Beyond that, the complexity of day to day living as well as its accompanying time pressure could be factors as well. As for my assertion that it was a failure of my generation that those lessons were not imparted—that was a flat out, unsubstantiated guess on my part. As such, it may well have been misguided.

All in all, I suspect our differences, Belinda, are outweighed by our concurrences.

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