Is Modesty a Virtue?

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: Is Modesty a Virtue?

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:57 pm

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No - an opinion is what I wanted...and I thank you for yours as well as everyone else's opinion upon this important philosophical question.



I thought, perhaps misunderstood, that you in particular;


Your context - *The reason you/we don't see it is because what you have posted is very low level illustrative representation of ethics. Virtue ethics requires a prescriptive explanation.



I thought, perhaps misunderstood, that you in particular perceived that unless ethics is expressed extremely literally; in words that illustrative expressions of an ethical concept are not as descriptive or as high level.







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Ginkgo
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Re: Is Modesty a Virtue?

Post by Ginkgo » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:13 pm

Ethics can sometimes be looked at in terms of being descriptive or prescriptive. It is just my opinion that art is inadequate in this particular field of study. You no doubt have a different opinion. Virtue ethics is a normative study.

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: Is Modesty a Virtue?

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:27 pm

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.........................................
ALL. WORDS. ARE. LIES.



...read into it what you want.




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the Hessian
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Re: Is Modesty a Virtue?

Post by the Hessian » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:50 pm

Ginkgo wrote: It is just my opinion that art is inadequate in this particular field of study.
I'm not so sure. I might even go so far as to say it is the preferred way to "talk" about ethics.

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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Is Modesty a Virtue?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:13 am

Blaggard wrote:I don't even think twirking is immodest, I never was one for social mores though I think prudish people should take the plug out of their asses.

Modesty in the way you interact outside of sex though I am probably a little more conservative, I hate for example overt displays of arrogance, not confidence but the sort of immodest and boastful crap that comes out of some peoples mouths, Americans are particularly well known for this as a nation, being regarded by most Europeans as being brash, boastful in comparison with say the Dutch. That said it obviously does not apply to everyone but when you think of arrougance like that I always tend to picture an American, perhaps a twat with a massively oversized US Flag on his back lawn and a Marines forever T-shirt, you know who I mean. :D
It's funny that you should say this, as once, long ago, I called Arising_UK arrogant, to which they replied, 'of course, I'm British.'

Ginkgo
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Re: Is Modesty a Virtue?

Post by Ginkgo » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:42 am

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.



.........................................
ALL. WORDS. ARE. LIES.



...read into it what you want.




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Ok I will give it a go.

If your statement "All words are lies" is true, then it must follow that the statement is false because there is a least one instance whereby you believe a collection of words is expression of something true. On the other hand, "All words are lies" can be seen to be false because there is at least one person (yourself) who posted this as a true statement.

You could claim that "All words are lies" and then quickly add the proviso "Except the words I am posting at the moment"

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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Is Modesty a Virtue?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:46 am

Ginkgo wrote:
Bill Wiltrack wrote:.



.........................................
ALL. WORDS. ARE. LIES.



...read into it what you want.




.


Ok I will give it a go.

If your statement "All words are lies" is true, then it must follow that the statement is false because there is a least one instance whereby you believe a collection of words is expression of something true. On the other hand, "All words are lies" can be seen to be false because there is at least one person (yourself) who posted this as a true statement.

You could claim that "All words are lies" and then quickly add the proviso "Except the words I am posting at the moment"
Good one, something I would say! That his words that "all words are lies", are words and thus lies, in keeping with his statement.

One has to be extremely careful when arguing against words, as it's usually self defeatist.

Ginkgo
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Re: Is Modesty a Virtue?

Post by Ginkgo » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:50 am

the Hessian wrote:
Ginkgo wrote: It is just my opinion that art is inadequate in this particular field of study.
I'm not so sure. I might even go so far as to say it is the preferred way to "talk" about ethics.

Goddammit, I forgot about the artistic people.

I only said this because I have always been very bad at art. Come to think of it I still draw a very good stick figure.

My apologies to people who support artistic expression.

the Hessian
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Re: Is Modesty a Virtue?

Post by the Hessian » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:03 am

Ginkgo wrote:
the Hessian wrote:
Ginkgo wrote: It is just my opinion that art is inadequate in this particular field of study.
I'm not so sure. I might even go so far as to say it is the preferred way to "talk" about ethics.

Goddammit, I forgot about the artistic people.

I only said this because I have always been very bad at art. Come to think of it I still draw a very good stick figure.

My apologies to people who support artistic expression.
Lol. That's not what I meant. Maybe you cannot draw, but you can watch a movie, right? Is virtue the answer to a theoretical problem or an act of fidelity to a powerful affect?

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Arising_uk
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Re: Is Modesty a Virtue?

Post by Arising_uk » Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:05 am

SpheresOfBalance wrote:It's funny that you should say this, as once, long ago, I called Arising_UK arrogant, to which they replied, 'of course, I'm British.'
'They'? It appears self-deprecating ironic humour is not an American trait.

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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Is Modesty a Virtue?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:30 am

Arising_uk wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote:It's funny that you should say this, as once, long ago, I called Arising_UK arrogant, to which they replied, 'of course, I'm British.'
'They'? It appears self-deprecating ironic humour is not an American trait.
In truth I was only speaking of you, at that time, yet once you said as you did, I thought, "oh yeah, that's right!" Because I had heard in the past, that it indeed tends to be the case with the British. But you should know me by now, at least somewhat; I don't really subscribe to such stereotypes, believing it infantile. Each should be judged for themselves. I can't remember why you got under my skin, water under the bridge!

As far as "they" is concerned, come on, you know why. I know you're smarter than that.

reasonvemotion
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Re: Is Modesty a Virtue?

Post by reasonvemotion » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:41 pm

I think that Bill is referring to sham modesty "that is made to imitate something in order to deceive". For example "all words are lies", does he mean words are not perfect, they are flawed, as is the misuse of them. Sham modesty is shallow, but more importantly it is used for producing the desired effect of increasing that person's prestige or power, it is a means of extracting compliments from a protesting listener and usually given to a person who does not deserve it, but actively seeks it in a furtive manner. Sham modesty and modesty are both in effect psychological manipulations, mind games.

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: Is Modesty a Virtue?

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:40 pm

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I'm blushing...





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reasonvemotion
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Re: Is Modesty a Virtue?

Post by reasonvemotion » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:55 pm

Truly, you are very gifted........

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Arising_uk
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Re: Is Modesty a Virtue?

Post by Arising_uk » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:01 am

reasonvemotion wrote:I think that Bill is referring to sham modesty "that is made to imitate something in order to deceive". ...
Then why did he also append a rape?
For example "all words are lies", does he mean words are not perfect, they are flawed, as is the misuse of them. ...
Don't think so, every post he's made about the subject is clear that he thinks words cannot be other than lies, that they are always misuse, always flawed, never perfect.
Sham modesty is shallow, but more importantly it is used for producing the desired effect of increasing that person's prestige or power, it is a means of extracting compliments from a protesting listener and usually given to a person who does not deserve it, but actively seeks it in a furtive manner. Sham modesty and modesty are both in effect psychological manipulations, mind games.
And yet his pictures are about sexual modesty? I think these your thoughts not his.

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