Is doing the right thing the right thing?

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Catriona
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Re: Is doing the right thing the right thing?

Post by Catriona »

marjoramblues wrote:C: My reluctance to answer some of your questions is lack of knowledge, lack of confidence and a doubt that I am struggling with an ethical problem or not.

M: Again - Sometimes, we overthink things. I understand about a sense of lack; however, usually when I try to answer something and listen to responses, my knowledge and confidence grow...little by little...

To recap:
M: A Christmas invitation to a friend's house is probably done with the best of intentions. If you think that you are not up to it, then don't feel obliged to go.

Q: However, how do you know that it would be 'wrong' for you. Also, you are assuming that your friend will not understand any reason offered for not accepting the invitation.
Q: Why would they be slighted ?
Q: I don't see any manipulation here, why would you feel that way?
C: Does doing the right thing, in respect of the other person, take precedence over self-interest? Or by doing the right thing, does that actually create self-satisfaction which overcomes self-interest or self-gratification?
M: Good questions. What does your life, experience and reflection suggest as answers? ... How did you decide on one action or another?
C: Is there a virtue ethical answer?
M: What do you understand by 'virtue ethics'?

C: My slim understanding is that it is deals with the question of virtue. Virtuous behaviour; the doer; the receiver; the benefits and the damages (?) from what is perceived as virtuous behaviour or actions by the majority (?) of people. Is virtue something to be desired or treated with suspicion? Who gains and who loses (if anyone).
M: Thanks for that; however, my understanding is as slim as yours. I read about it a while ago; what I remember is that it had to do with a person's character and capacity to act according to your developed values in any given circumstance.

So, what would a 'virtue ethical answer' look like as applied to your current dilemma?
I suggest that it would be based on your maturity, the kind of person you are and your capacity to weigh up pros and cons.

C: My decisions on one course of action or another have been largely taken without thinking too far into the future. My attitude has always been that we can't walk two paths at once and compare the two, therefore I have almost randomly gone down one path and lived that life.

M: OK. Well, you don't need to look too far into the future for some decision-making.
Is it better to act in a thoughtful or thoughtless way, towards self and others?
On reflection, have you had any joy/regrets about any consequences of actions taken?
Have you been more attuned to circumstances requiring less honesty than would be helpful?
How to decide what is thoughtful or thoughtless? This is surely a value judgement and is my current dilemma. However, if I think about the merits of accepting the invitation to lunch, I can't help but see those merits as not on my side but on the inviter. I wish I could see the benefits to me, but those are possible future benefits - ie the continuation of a relationship on easy terms with that family.
However, for me - and this is very difficult to explain - I am going through a period of feeling very unhappy and am looking for a way out of that state. Going along with the status quo does not seem to be the answer. On the surface, I don't think she knows the full extent of how I feel. My fault? Probably.

M: Have you been more attuned to circumstances requiring less honesty than would be helpful?
Yes, if I have understood what you are saying. Putting a brave face on every day fools some of the people some of the time.
marjoramblues
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Re: Is doing the right thing the right thing?

Post by marjoramblues »

Reading ethical theory will not help with current dilemma. However, having a developed personal philosophy will help. Practical wisdom gained through life experience and reflection...

Decide what to do, after weighing up pros and cons for yourself, first and foremost. That will include your evaluating friendship. You could try writing down consequences of each possible decision. Or you can go with gut feeling...if you know yourself well enough, then sometimes this is a good way to decide...

If it is difficult for you to explain full extent of feelings right now, then leave it until you feel more able. Be kind to yourself and friend.

Whatever you decide, I wish you all the very best at this difficult time.
Catriona
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Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:00 pm

Re: Is doing the right thing the right thing?

Post by Catriona »

marjoramblues wrote:Reading ethical theory will not help with current dilemma. However, having a developed personal philosophy will help. Practical wisdom gained through life experience and reflection...

Decide what to do, after weighing up pros and cons for yourself, first and foremost. That will include your evaluating friendship. You could try writing down consequences of each possible decision. Or you can go with gut feeling...if you know yourself well enough, then sometimes this is a good way to decide...

If it is difficult for you to explain full extent of feelings right now, then leave it until you feel more able. Be kind to yourself and friend.

Whatever you decide, I wish you all the very best at this difficult time.
Thank you.
The one thing in my favour is that unlike Pandora's box, mine has curiosity remaining, so I will continue to delve into the way others see this world and its interactions. I see through a camera lens most of the time, trying to capture that moment and the essence of that person.
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HexHammer
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Re: Is doing the right thing the right thing?

Post by HexHammer »

If your errand isn't abused of your partner, but if he does serve you too then it's not abuse, but mutual service.

You should try give some examples of what you have done and what your partner has done, because your anologies and principles seems completely wrong.
Catriona
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Re: Is doing the right thing the right thing?

Post by Catriona »

HexHammer wrote:If your errand isn't abused of your partner, but if he does serve you too then it's not abuse, but mutual service.

You should try give some examples of what you have done and what your partner has done, because your anologies and principles seems completely wrong.
I do not understand what you are trying to say. I do not think you have understood the whole scenario.

So be it.

Merry Christmas.
reasonvemotion
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Re: Is doing the right thing the right thing?

Post by reasonvemotion »

Have I reached an age where it does not matter?
Yes, you have.

Now that I am living on my own after 45 years of partnership, I find the question of doing the right thing an increasingly difficult one.
Am I doing the right thing for me or for other people?
What is the right thing?
The thing which harms no-one but myself?
The thing which satisfies my criterion of self-good?

How would "doing the right thing" change simply because you are on your own now?
Catriona
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Re: Is doing the right thing the right thing?

Post by Catriona »

reasonvemotion wrote:
Have I reached an age where it does not matter?
Yes, you have.

Now that I am living on my own after 45 years of partnership, I find the question of doing the right thing an increasingly difficult one.
Am I doing the right thing for me or for other people?
What is the right thing?
The thing which harms no-one but myself?
The thing which satisfies my criterion of self-good?

How would "doing the right thing" change simply because you are on your own now?
For years, my criterion of what was the right thing to do, centred on my partner and what I thought was the right thing as far as he was concerned, not really as far as I was concerned. His needs superseded my own.
Now I am on my own, I have allowed other people to decide what was good for me and what was the best course of action for me, and I have gone along with that, so far.
Now I am starting to feel that I have needs and wishes which are not in accordance with certain close friends. Satisfying these needs would go against the wishes of those who have been close to me and have helped me since I have been alone.
So, do I hurt them in order to satisfy and assert my independence? Or is the right thing to submit to their wishes and make them happy?
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HexHammer
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Re: Is doing the right thing the right thing?

Post by HexHammer »

Catriona wrote:
HexHammer wrote:If your errand isn't abused of your partner, but if he does serve you too then it's not abuse, but mutual service.

You should try give some examples of what you have done and what your partner has done, because your anologies and principles seems completely wrong.
I do not understand what you are trying to say. I do not think you have understood the whole scenario.

So be it.

Merry Christmas.
OoooOOPsssiieee!! Sorry didn't read all your post through ..some might accuse me for being overly drunk ..at time of mishap ..erhm ..now with a fresh mind let me repharse myself.

Your principles are wrong, imo.

You must go to the dinner because of principle, if you begin to bail on them, they will do the same to you, as they might see it as an oppotunistic and selfserving action, besides it a huge disrespect to bail on someone.
You soak it up and see it through.
Catriona
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Re: Is doing the right thing the right thing?

Post by Catriona »

HexHammer wrote:
Catriona wrote:
HexHammer wrote:If your errand isn't abused of your partner, but if he does serve you too then it's not abuse, but mutual service.

You should try give some examples of what you have done and what your partner has done, because your anologies and principles seems completely wrong.
I do not understand what you are trying to say. I do not think you have understood the whole scenario.

So be it.

Merry Christmas.
OoooOOPsssiieee!! Sorry didn't read all your post through ..some might accuse me for being overly drunk ..at time of mishap ..erhm ..now with a fresh mind let me repharse myself.

Your principles are wrong, imo.

You must go to the dinner because of principle, if you begin to bail on them, they will do the same to you, as they might see it as an oppotunistic and selfserving action, besides it a huge disrespect to bail on someone.
You soak it up and see it through.
You'll have to expand on 'principle'. An established ethic? A moral prerogative? Accepted behaviour? Socially accepted norm?

I have begged off the visit.
I feel better.
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HexHammer
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Re: Is doing the right thing the right thing?

Post by HexHammer »

The thing which harms no-one but myself?
The thing which satisfies my criterion of self-good?

If I please others' wishes and desires, but not my own, is it the right thing?
If I please myself, but hurt others, is it the wrong thing?
These are principles.

Imo it's wrong to condse everything into principles, as such principles can't cover everything and often confuse more than it helps, but each their taste.

I usually do a situational analysis and if the bad outweigh the good, I call it off or soak it up and go torture myself.
Catriona
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Re: Is doing the right thing the right thing?

Post by Catriona »

HexHammer wrote:
The thing which harms no-one but myself?
The thing which satisfies my criterion of self-good?

If I please others' wishes and desires, but not my own, is it the right thing?
If I please myself, but hurt others, is it the wrong thing?
These are principles.

Imo it's wrong to condse everything into principles, as such principles can't cover everything and often confuse more than it helps, but each their taste.

I usually do a situational analysis and if the bad outweigh the good, I call it off or soak it up and go torture myself.
Sounds a reasonable way to approach a situation.
Principles must surely be based upon ethical norms aren't they?
Surely they can evolve or are they written in stone based on social acceptability?
I must be unprincipled at present.
I went over and declined the invitation. We shall see what tomorrow brings.
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HexHammer
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Re: Is doing the right thing the right thing?

Post by HexHammer »

Catriona wrote:Sounds a reasonable way to approach a situation.
Principles must surely be based upon ethical norms aren't they?
Surely they can evolve or are they written in stone based on social acceptability?
Principles can be based on anything, depending on if your a solider, terrorist, buisnessman, farmer, politician or whatever.

For the most time it seems principles are based on cost/benefit and narcissism, else it's misunderstood moral and ethics, and in exceedingly rare cases on true moral and ethics.
reasonvemotion
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Re: Is doing the right thing the right thing?

Post by reasonvemotion »

Catriona wrote:
Have I reached an age where it does not matter?
RE wrote:
Yes, you have.
I think Catriona has found a replacement.
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