Corona, Controversies and Careers

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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RCSaunders
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Re: Corona, Controversies and Careers

Post by RCSaunders »

commonsense wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:38 am They have the full approval of the FDA.
Well then, there's no more argument. Everyone knows, after God, whatever the FDA says is so. It speaks with both omniscience and infallibility.

Ever here of thalidomide and swine flu vaccine?

Why would anyone believe anything any government agency said?
commonsense
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Re: Corona, Controversies and Careers

Post by commonsense »

RCSaunders wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:53 pm
commonsense wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:38 am They have the full approval of the FDA.
Well then, there's no more argument. Everyone knows, after God, whatever the FDA says is so. It speaks with both omniscience and infallibility.

Ever here of thalidomide and swine flu vaccine?

Why would anyone believe anything any government agency said?
Who can disagree? Not I.
commonsense
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Re: Corona, Controversies and Careers

Post by commonsense »

commonsense wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:28 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:53 pm
commonsense wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:38 am They have the full approval of the FDA.
Well then, there's no more argument. Everyone knows, after God, whatever the FDA says is so. It speaks with both omniscience and infallibility.

Ever here of thalidomide and swine flu vaccine?

Why would anyone believe anything any government agency said?
Who can disagree? Not I.
Still, things may have changed since thalidomide in the 1950’s and swine flu in the 1970’s.
Skip
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Re: Corona, Controversies and Careers

Post by Skip »

RCSaunders wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:53 pm Why would anyone believe anything any government agency said?
If you compared the correct and incorrect information coming from government agencies to the correct and incorrect information coming from internet conspiracy theorists, the proportion of correct to incorrect might persuade you that one is more reliable than the other. Or maybe compare the number of vaccines approved by the FDA that were effective to the number that were harmful. https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biol ... ted-statesOr the Covid 19 fatalities among vaccinated and unvaccinated patients. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... 180978714/
Those are some ways to decide. Twitter is another.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Corona, Controversies and Careers

Post by RCSaunders »

Skip wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:34 am
RCSaunders wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:53 pm Why would anyone believe anything any government agency said?
If you compared the correct and incorrect information coming from government agencies to the correct and incorrect information coming from internet conspiracy theorists, the proportion of correct to incorrect might persuade you that one is more reliable than the other. Or maybe compare the number of vaccines approved by the FDA that were effective to the number that were harmful. https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biol ... ted-statesOr the Covid 19 fatalities among vaccinated and unvaccinated patients. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... 180978714/
Those are some ways to decide. Twitter is another.
Good grief! You are comparing the words of two lunatics (government vs. social media) to decide which is better? There is plenty of evidence. Think for yourself.
Skip
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Re: Corona, Controversies and Careers

Post by Skip »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:02 am Good grief! You are comparing the words of two lunatics (government vs. social media) to decide which is better?
No; I am comparing their track records.
There is plenty of evidence.
So I keep being told by people who then fail or refuse to present any.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Corona, Controversies and Careers

Post by RCSaunders »

Skip wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:48 am
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:02 am Good grief! You are comparing the words of two lunatics (government vs. social media) to decide which is better?
No; I am comparing their track records.
There is plenty of evidence.
So I keep being told by people who then fail or refuse to present any.
Then why do you listen to them? You have your own mind and all the evidence (the real world) that is available to anyone else is available to you. You can certainly learn from others, so long as you do not just take their word for it (as so-called authorities or experts) but you still have to do your own thinking and learning. No one else is obligated to, "present," evidence to you, and you certainly do hot have to agree with anyone else. Think for yourself. No one else can digest your food for you, breath air for you, or do your learning for you.
commonsense
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Re: Corona, Controversies and Careers

Post by commonsense »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:16 pm
Skip wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:48 am
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:02 am Good grief! You are comparing the words of two lunatics (government vs. social media) to decide which is better?
No; I am comparing their track records.
There is plenty of evidence.
So I keep being told by people who then fail or refuse to present any.
Then why do you listen to them? You have your own mind and all the evidence (the real world) that is available to anyone else is available to you. You can certainly learn from others, so long as you do not just take their word for it (as so-called authorities or experts) but you still have to do your own thinking and learning. No one else is obligated to, "present," evidence to you, and you certainly do hot have to agree with anyone else. Think for yourself. No one else can digest your food for you, breath air for you, or do your learning for you.
If you think for yourself, your thoughts cannot be consistent with the conspiracists.

If your thoughts are not consistent with, or are in opposition to, the conspiracists your thinking will likely be in agreement with the government.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Corona, Controversies and Careers

Post by RCSaunders »

commonsense wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:02 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:16 pm
Skip wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:48 am
No; I am comparing their track records.

So I keep being told by people who then fail or refuse to present any.
Then why do you listen to them? You have your own mind and all the evidence (the real world) that is available to anyone else is available to you. You can certainly learn from others, so long as you do not just take their word for it (as so-called authorities or experts) but you still have to do your own thinking and learning. No one else is obligated to, "present," evidence to you, and you certainly do hot have to agree with anyone else. Think for yourself. No one else can digest your food for you, breath air for you, or do your learning for you.
If you think for yourself, your thoughts cannot be consistent with the conspiracists.

If your thoughts are not consistent with, or are in opposition to, the conspiracists your thinking will likely be in agreement with the government.
Well then, that's what you think. I do not agree, obviously, but your views are your own, and that's what they ought to be.
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Re: Corona, Controversies and Careers

Post by bahman »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:34 am This is an ethics professor at a Canadian university who is caught in a serious moral dilemma.

Your thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqHfx5SGaWE
I think the vaccine should be mandatory too. It is not about your life only but the life of others that might depend on whether you take the vaccine or not.
Impenitent
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Re: Corona, Controversies and Careers

Post by Impenitent »

take the vaccine or bathe in the government shower...

-Imp
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Re: Corona, Controversies and Careers

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

I'm not an anti-vaxxer, I've had the vaccine myself, but logically there is no way of really knowing how it could be affecting some people.
A kind neighbour died soon after having the vaccine. It could never be proven one way or another what caused him to have a heart attack and die soon after having the vaccine at the age of 68, a non smoker who grew his own vegetables and walked everywhere, so any claims about numbers and statistics can only be guesses at best.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Corona, Controversies and Careers

Post by Immanuel Can »

bahman wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:59 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:34 am This is an ethics professor at a Canadian university who is caught in a serious moral dilemma.

Your thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqHfx5SGaWE
I think the vaccine should be mandatory too. It is not about your life only but the life of others that might depend on whether you take the vaccine or not.
That assumes that the vaccine is has been tested to show its long-term effects. It has not, for the very obvious reason that we haven't had any such time. We have had no control groups, no large-scale studies of any duration at all, in fact. So anybody who says, "Science has shown this vaccine is safe" is just lying in a very obvious way.

But what we are discovering is that bad side effects can come from some of these vaccines. One of them, for example, the AstraZeneca, has been pulled entirely from circulation, and is now being recommended for nobody...and yet, a few months ago, governments were doling the stuff out with great fanfare. So don't imagine they won't lie to you about how safe the vaccines are: they've done it already, and been caught.

What none of us knows is the long-term. I have one friend, one of the early vaxxers and in the medical profession, whom the vaccine put into anaphalactic shock instantly, and probably would have killed him if he had not already been near an emergency ward when it happened. And there are young men right now who are exhibiting strange heart malfunctions immediately after the vaccine. As for women of fertility age, we haven't the foggiest idea what it will do to them or their progeny. And for the rest of us, we don't know that this vaccine won't result in some other longer effect.

I don't blame anybody who decides they don't want to be a guinea pig. They're certainly not immoral or uncaring...they may very well be entirely judicious. And one day, we may wish we had done the same.
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Re: Corona, Controversies and Careers

Post by commonsense »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:30 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:59 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:34 am This is an ethics professor at a Canadian university who is caught in a serious moral dilemma.

Your thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqHfx5SGaWE
I think the vaccine should be mandatory too. It is not about your life only but the life of others that might depend on whether you take the vaccine or not.
That assumes that the vaccine is has been tested to show its long-term effects. It has not, for the very obvious reason that we haven't had any such time. We have had no control groups, no large-scale studies of any duration at all, in fact. So anybody who says, "Science has shown this vaccine is safe" is just lying in a very obvious way.

But what we are discovering is that bad side effects can come from some of these vaccines. One of them, for example, the AstraZeneca, has been pulled entirely from circulation, and is now being recommended for nobody...and yet, a few months ago, governments were doling the stuff out with great fanfare. So don't imagine they won't lie to you about how safe the vaccines are: they've done it already, and been caught.

What none of us knows is the long-term. I have one friend, one of the early vaxxers and in the medical profession, whom the vaccine put into anaphalactic shock instantly, and probably would have killed him if he had not already been near an emergency ward when it happened. And there are young men right now who are exhibiting strange heart malfunctions immediately after the vaccine. As for women of fertility age, we haven't the foggiest idea what it will do to them or their progeny. And for the rest of us, we don't know that this vaccine won't result in some other longer effect.

I don't blame anybody who decides they don't want to be a guinea pig. They're certainly not immoral or uncaring...they may very well be entirely judicious. And one day, we may wish we had done the same.
Another disturbing thought: vaccines and other medicines are routinely brought to market without an investigation into their long term effects, which is usually examined by means of reports of side effects collected after approved for general use.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Corona, Controversies and Careers

Post by Immanuel Can »

commonsense wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:27 pm Another disturbing thought: vaccines and other medicines are routinely brought to market without an investigation into their long term effects, which is usually examined by means of reports of side effects collected after approved for general use.
Yep.

There's a whole pharmaceutical industry that enriches itself entirely on the promise of the next miracle medicine. And it's as unscrupulous as any industry...which is to say, if you drop the standards by which it's assessed, they'll bring practically anything to market that they think they can get away with marketing. COVID has forced the government to hurry, and to drop its due diligence practices on the vaccines...especially those measures that involve long-term evaluation, control groups, and so forth. So we really don't know what we're getting, beyond that it's a "hit and hope" measure.

So no wonder some people don't want to risk it.

And right now, even the early results are concerning. In addition to bad reactions and unknown long-term effects, there's the continual changing of the terms of the vaccine. Remember when there were one-shot vaccines? And then two-shot vaccines? And then talk of the necessity of a third shot? And now they are talking as if revaccination is going to be necessary every few months.

So we're not talking about a one-and-done miracle drug here. It's not actually a preventative, and certainly not a curative. What's clear is that the people who are pushing it are, at best, learning as they go what it really is and does. Nobody knows for sure, right now. All we know is they want us to pay a lot for it, and to have to keep taking it. And they hate all suggestions of a cheap drug as an alternative.

They hate even more anybody who doesn't trust them at all.
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