Is objective morality/justice imaginary?

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Is objective morality/justice imaginary?

Post by Atheer » Sat May 12, 2018 1:32 pm

Hi all,
hope can find some answers to my questions here. I will try to abbreviate.

If there is objective morality, then equal interests per life time for each sentient being should be the aim to achieve. Therefore:

1. Utilitarianism can not be objective because it ignores the distribution of well-being and separateness of persons.

2. Theories considering the separateness of persons on the other hand, can have one of the following results:

2.1 Libertarianism:
This can not be objective because it ignores the distribution of well-being.
2.2 Egalitarianism/Equality
Even if we assume that some version of it aims at providing equal interests per life time for each sentient being, it can not achieve that.
People are not going to end up having equal well-being. You can not prevent that some individuals will end up worse off than others. You can not control how each individual lives and dies.

If you think this is not an argument against separateness of persons, think about this:

If separateness of persons is true in the egalitarian sense, then the world is equally bad or good whether one person/sentient being or all persons but one person in the world is worse off.

If separatness of persons and equality are requirements for objective morality, then as long as there is one human or sentient animal suffering or going to suffer, it makes no moral difference to help others.
The problem is that it does seem these two are requirements of objective morality.

As long as illness and natural disasters happen to humans, carnivorous animals have to eat other animals or suffer and die themselves, we can not provide equal wellbeing to each sentient being. And if we can not that, then separateness of persons and equal distribution of well-being will be both required for objective morality to exist and impossible to achieve, which only leaves us with the option that it is imaginary!

Is objective morality imaginary?

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Re: Is objective morality/justice imaginary?

Post by A_Seagull » Mon May 14, 2018 11:42 pm

Atheer wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 1:32 pm

Is objective morality imaginary?

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Re: Is objective morality/justice imaginary?

Post by tassieguy » Tue May 22, 2018 1:07 am

Yes, objectivity in morality imaginary.

The illusion that our moral values are objective is a product of evolution. Evolution came up with strategies that worked, not strategies that were morally right. Evolution is blind to moral truth for the same reason that our preferred behaviours don’t track moral truth: There’s no such thing.

I find it interesting how people (scientists, philosophers and lay people alike) continue to tie themselves in knots trying to invent objective value and force it onto a world that cannot contain it. They are still in thrall of the illusion of objectivity that evolution foisted on us to make us pursue strategies that got us through the Pleistocene.

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Re: Is objective morality/justice imaginary?

Post by Greta » Tue May 22, 2018 1:19 am

I find that justice, when it occurs, is largely a happy accident.

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Post by henry quirk » Tue May 22, 2018 2:37 am

Justice is subjective.

A serial child rapist/murderer is caught, tried, convicted, and sentenced to The Chair.

Sure as shit, a significant number of nimrods will protest the upcoming execution as unjust.

Now, it's possible there 'is' an objective or universal or absolute justice, but none of us ('us' being humans) is qualified to say for sure.

No, goin' only by what we know and can know, I have to say justice (morality) is subjective, shifty and shifting.

So: suss out your wrongs and rights, defend your sussings the best you can, take it up with *Crom after you croak.

*like Crom gives two shits...

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