On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theory and other such hot topics.

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Walker
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Walker » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:44 pm

Don’t be silly. You insist on having words put into your mouth. However, and this is meant to be observational rather than judgmental, this desire for total control over one’s own body and what grows inside appears to be a state of selective, relative autonomy. This same autonomy of self-ownership is knowingly, consciously, surrendered at other selective times, under certain conditions such as take me now Jesus ‘cause I can’t stand no more goodness! This certainly has philolsophical implications.

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:48 pm

.




IF Stormy Daniels has an audio of Trump suggesting to her to get an abortion, and I have the funny feeling she does, this, would basically be, admission to suggest to Stormy to commit murder.


How Trump's 33% unmovable base would react to him suggesting to Stormy to commit murder will be fascinating...







........................................................Image










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Walker
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Walker » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:14 pm

Trump's a realist. A pragmatist. It's why he's president.

People know why they elected him.

People know who he is.

People also know that abortion on demand was determined to be the supreme law,

by the will of five people,

not the will of the majority of the people.


That's a fact. Judge it as you will, and find cause.

:wink:

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:05 pm

Walker wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:44 pm
Don’t be silly. You insist on having words put into your mouth. However, and this is meant to be observational rather than judgmental, this desire for total control over one’s own body and what grows inside appears to be a state of selective, relative autonomy. This same autonomy of self-ownership is knowingly, consciously, surrendered at other selective times, under certain conditions such as take me now Jesus ‘cause I can’t stand no more goodness! This certainly has philolsophical implications.
What's 'silly'?

Walker
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Walker » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:43 pm

Excessive focus on umbridge.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:26 am

Who or what is 'stormy daniels'?

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:12 am

Walker wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:43 pm
Excessive focus on umbridge.
What does Umbridge have to do with it?

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:17 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:23 am
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:19 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:02 pm
Because it's none of your damn business, that's why.
What's your opinion of child support? Not asking as a way to make an argument against that, by the way, because I more or less agree with that sentiment. I'm very pro-choice myself. I'm just genuinely curious.
I don't really have any opinion on it, as long as it's fair. Why would you bring that up? No one on here is talking about child support.
Perhaps you could start another thread titled 'On the topic of child support--an ethical issue''.
If you'd rather not derail the discussion too much, than that''s fine, because I'm suggesting that it's actually relevant to your belief that it's no one else's business. If that principle is flimsy the second it goes to an implication that you don't like, it's probably not a principle you actually hold. "It's no one else's damn business", except the act of a child actually being born does have implications to the other parent's wallet. Obviously, this wouldn't be an idea exclusive to you, there are many pro-choicers who hold this exact statement yet also want a ton of government oversight to help take care of her baby once it's born.

But maybe you have a reconciliation to the two ideas.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:24 pm

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:17 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:23 am
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:19 am
What's your opinion of child support? Not asking as a way to make an argument against that, by the way, because I more or less agree with that sentiment. I'm very pro-choice myself. I'm just genuinely curious.
I don't really have any opinion on it, as long as it's fair. Why would you bring that up? No one on here is talking about child support.
Perhaps you could start another thread titled 'On the topic of child support--an ethical issue''.
If you'd rather not derail the discussion too much, than that''s fine, because I'm suggesting that it's actually relevant to your belief that it's no one else's business. If that principle is flimsy the second it goes to an implication that you don't like, it's probably not a principle you actually hold. "It's no one else's damn business", except the act of a child actually being born does have implications to the other parent's wallet. Obviously, this wouldn't be an idea exclusive to you, there are many pro-choicers who hold this exact statement yet also want a ton of government oversight to help take care of her baby once it's born.

But maybe you have a reconciliation to the two ideas.
They are two completely different topics. Are you saying males should be able to force women to have abortions because they don't want to pay child support? Do men have to pay child support before the child is born?
You could always set out your own legislation here, that is fair to all parties (it might take a while though).

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:42 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:24 pm
They are two completely different topics.
I think it shows a pretty direct inconsistency. It doesn't make a good case that it should be no other person's business, if it legally will be, and you don't have any problem with that.
Are you saying males should be able to force women to have abortions because they don't want to pay child support?
No, I said that I agree with the idea that it's no one else's business. I think the solution is to get rid of something there, but definitely not the woman's ability to choose.

Walker
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Walker » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:47 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:12 am
Walker wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:43 pm
Excessive focus on umbridge.
What does Umbridge have to do with it?

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Everything. SD just might be, the umbridge of excessive focus.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:43 pm

It still has nothing to do with child support. And women have to pay that too. I wonder how many males who whine about child support are also anti-choice.

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:02 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:43 pm
It still has nothing to do with child support.
No. But it does have something to do with the idea that 'it's (not) someone else's business'.
And women have to pay that too.
Well I'm not arguing whether it's a technically fair system. I'm saying that for it to not be anyone else's business, you have to act like it's no one else's business.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:23 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:02 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:43 pm
It still has nothing to do with child support.
No. But it does have something to do with the idea that 'it's (not) someone else's business'.
And women have to pay that too.
Well I'm not arguing whether it's a technically fair system. I'm saying that for it to not be anyone else's business, you have to act like it's no one else's business.
Then why aren't you asking me if it's anyone else's business which school you choose for your children, or if you regularly see the dentist? You need to be more specific. To be on the topic of abortion and then just randomly say 'what do you think of child support' is a bit ridiculous don't you think?
Child support concerns children and not foetuses right? Or does it start at conception in your country?
I do happen to think there is a lot of unfairness in the system, but it's still not relevant to this topic.

Walker
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Walker » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:19 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:19 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:02 pm
Because it's none of your damn business, that's why.
What's your opinion of child support? Not asking as a way to make an argument against that, by the way, because I more or less agree with that sentiment. I'm very pro-choice myself. I'm just genuinely curious.
If the pregnancy is a consequence of a woman’s sole autonomous control and say over her body, then why is the man obligated to pay any support at all? Ethically, autonomous control and say comes at the price of responsibility for the consequences.

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