On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theory and other such hot topics.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 8173
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:19 pm

Unconvincing show of 'outrage' btw, especially as anyone can read back and see how disingenuous and off-the-mark that is. As for the rest..In Henry's words, meh...
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Sir-Sister-of-Suck
Posts: 939
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:09 am

Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:19 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:02 pm
Because it's none of your damn business, that's why.
What's your opinion of child support? Not asking as a way to make an argument against that, by the way, because I more or less agree with that sentiment. I'm very pro-choice myself. I'm just genuinely curious.

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 8173
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:23 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:19 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:02 pm
Because it's none of your damn business, that's why.
What's your opinion of child support? Not asking as a way to make an argument against that, by the way, because I more or less agree with that sentiment. I'm very pro-choice myself. I'm just genuinely curious.
I don't really have any opinion on it, as long as it's fair. Why would you bring that up? No one on here is talking about child support.
Perhaps you could start another thread titled 'On the topic of child support--an ethical issue''.

User avatar
Bill Wiltrack
Posts: 5468
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:52 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Contact:

Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:29 am

.





Have the feelin' there's a Stormy Daniels a'brewin' on the topic of abortion this Sunday...





.

Walker
Posts: 6869
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Walker » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:23 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:46 pm
You're on the right track, but it still holds true that a woman has complete control over the life of a foetus right up until it's no longer inside her. She can rightly be charged with murder after that point because it can then be kept alive and looked after by another party.
Even in countries where there is no legal abortion I don't think there are any cases of a woman being charged with murder for ending her own pregnancy. Women don't get charged for taking heroin or other dangerous drugs when they are pregnant, but they would be if they injected their baby with herion after it was born.
The high numbers of abortion worldwide, even in countries where abortion is illegal, indicates that abortion may indeed be the action of a woman’s primal need to assert personal autonomy and control where she can, particularly in situations and countries where she has relatively less say over her own life. Abortion would then be a need to assert autonomy where autonomy is absent, which is characteristically in societies where women are less educated.

WHO statistics indicate that more educated women in a society correlates with fewer births.

One possible conclusion based on this, is that on a societal scale, educated women have the means, the knowledge and the autonomy to practice birth control.

The other possibility is that on a societal scale, women made autonomous through education still are motivated by the primal need to assert autonomy through abortion, as indicated by fewer births in the society.

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 8173
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:48 am

Walker wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:23 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:46 pm
You're on the right track, but it still holds true that a woman has complete control over the life of a foetus right up until it's no longer inside her. She can rightly be charged with murder after that point because it can then be kept alive and looked after by another party.
Even in countries where there is no legal abortion I don't think there are any cases of a woman being charged with murder for ending her own pregnancy. Women don't get charged for taking heroin or other dangerous drugs when they are pregnant, but they would be if they injected their baby with herion after it was born.
The high numbers of abortion worldwide, even in countries where abortion is illegal, indicates that abortion may indeed be the action of a woman’s primal need to assert personal autonomy and control where she can, particularly in situations and countries where she has relatively less say over her own life. Abortion would then be a need to assert autonomy where autonomy is absent, which is characteristically in societies where women are less educated.

WHO statistics indicate that more educated women in a society correlates with fewer births.

One possible conclusion based on this, is that on a societal scale, educated women have the means, the knowledge and the autonomy to practice birth control.

The other possibility is that on a societal scale, women made autonomous through education still are motivated by the primal need to assert autonomy through abortion, as indicated by fewer births in the society.
Not sure of your point. Are you suggesting that women deliberately get pregnant in order to have an abortion, as a way to assert their independence? That's a very peculiar assertion. And why so much intense scrutiny? It's not really any of my business why women have abortions. I assume it's because they don't want a baby.

Walker
Posts: 6869
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Walker » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:42 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:48 am
Not sure of your point. Are you suggesting that women deliberately get pregnant in order to have an abortion, as a way to assert their independence? That's a very peculiar assertion. And why so much intense scrutiny? It's not really any of my business why women have abortions. I assume it's because they don't want a baby.
No sweeping conclusions.

Your comment about women having total say over their bodies prompted the thoughts.

For the very reason that women desire total say over their bodies, pregnancies destined for abortion may well have begun as an assertion of autonomy.

This is certainly a different cause of unwanted pregnancy than the feminist assertion that all sex is rape.

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 8173
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:12 pm

Walker wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:42 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:48 am
Not sure of your point. Are you suggesting that women deliberately get pregnant in order to have an abortion, as a way to assert their independence? That's a very peculiar assertion. And why so much intense scrutiny? It's not really any of my business why women have abortions. I assume it's because they don't want a baby.
No sweeping conclusions.

Your comment about women having total say over their bodies prompted the thoughts.

For the very reason that women desire total say over their bodies, pregnancies destined for abortion may well have begun as an assertion of autonomy.

This is certainly a different cause of unwanted pregnancy than the feminist assertion that all sex is rape.
Which feminist said that?

Walker
Posts: 6869
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Walker » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:22 pm

Probably some radical.

Here’s the thing, though.

To say that women want complete control over their bodies just might be an assumption.

Do women really seek autonomy?

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 8173
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:36 pm

Walker wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:42 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:48 am
Not sure of your point. Are you suggesting that women deliberately get pregnant in order to have an abortion, as a way to assert their independence? That's a very peculiar assertion. And why so much intense scrutiny? It's not really any of my business why women have abortions. I assume it's because they don't want a baby.
No sweeping conclusions.

Your comment about women having total say over their bodies prompted the thoughts.

For the very reason that women desire total say over their bodies, pregnancies destined for abortion may well have begun as an assertion of autonomy.

This is certainly a different cause of unwanted pregnancy than the feminist assertion that all sex is rape.
You are putting words in my mouth instead of reading what I actually say.

Walker
Posts: 6869
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Walker » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:44 pm

I read what you said, and it has simply prompted other thoughts.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, or hold you to words, or debate, or trick you.

It merely seems that autonomy is a significant factor, in some way.

When you think about it, the decision to have sex, under normal circumstances of romance, is answering a desire to surrender autonomy and to be part of another, which includes being responsible for another, to the level of one's capacity.

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 8173
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:48 pm

Then you just disagreed with your own assertion. You don't need me for that :)
The abortion 'debate' is about OTHERS (i.e. religious nuts) having control over women's bodily functions. It has always been about religious nutterery versus logic and reason.
You should have read SF's excellent post about it. I don't know why he went off on the red herring 'brain function' tangent.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Walker
Posts: 6869
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Walker » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:56 pm

You're the one who made the assertion that women want total control over their physical processes, including what grows inside.

I'm simply riffing on that, with a variation discordant to your initial theme.

Flow with it, don't get bogged down.

Walker
Posts: 6869
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Walker » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:10 pm

Bill Wiltrack wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:29 am
.





Have the feelin' there's a Stormy Daniels a'brewin' on the topic of abortion this Sunday...





.

:D

She may have listened to the Classics IV in the flower of youth.

I’d like to see a video of Ol’ Trump suavely lip-synching to this.
Black tuxedo, blonde hair, smirking.

The guy just cracks me up. How can you not laugh.


Classics IV
Stormy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwR86dj4xes

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 8173
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:32 pm

Walker wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:56 pm
You're the one who made the assertion that women want total control over their physical processes, including what grows inside.

I'm simply riffing on that, with a variation discordant to your initial theme.

Flow with it, don't get bogged down.
So you think rape should be legal then. And there you go putting words in my mouth again. Women do have control over their pregnancies. Ending them could well mean ending their own life, but of course the self-proclaimed 'pro-lifers' don't mind that one bit.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests