The Death Penalty Rapes us All

[ForgedinHell]

When the state commits murder it lessens the value of all human life. It also makes us coconspirators in the crime. The call for a person's death opens the door for the weakening of civil liberty and justice for all of us. When we sanction murder by the state, we are saying that cold-blooded, premeditated murder, is justified. Not in an act of self-defense, and not always against the guilty, it somehow becomes okay to murder because justice allegedly demands revenge. Revenge and justice are never the same. There is never a justification for allowing the state to murder. When the state murders a person, it takes from all of us, a piece of our human dignity. It lessens the value of our lives and diminishes our rights. And when the state robs us of our dignity, it is like we are being raped.

[johngalthasspoken]

I'm really tired of humanitarians speaking about violence as if it is opposed to human nature. Civilization merely forces humans to turn their instincts for cruelty, hostility and hunting against themselves. It creates that bad conscience. Violence is a very human phenomenon. Without the repressive nature of the law, violence is a very common and acceptable feature of human society.only a sheltered mind would think otherwise.
There is nothing wrong with capital punishment & we need to make the system more efficient and effective here in America.I do not consider killing another human being to be inherently wrong and I don't believe in the sanctity of human life,i'm not a humanist. you have to look at the cost/benefit of keeping a criminal alive.

When the state murders a person, it takes from all of us, a piece of our human dignity. It lessens the value of our lives and diminishes our rights. And when the state robs us of our dignity, it is like we are being raped.

You are such a sentimentalist FIH

[Atthet]

This is the logical end of liberalism, that the weakest entities of life, are also the most worthy of protection and security. Liberalism, ironically and hypocritically forgets, who and what establishment, does the actual protecting and securing. Liberalism forgets there is a cost to imposing laws against people, prosecution, and punishment. Ironically, this is demonstrated by this contradiction.

If all are worthy of life, and a murderer kills another person, then isn't the murderer also worthy of life, forgiveness, and rehabilitation? Liberalism must deny the existence, and cause of murders, while at the same time, denying the need for justice, revenge, and punishment. Punishment of any kind, is contradictory to the premises of liberalism.

[johngalthasspoken]

This is the logical end of liberalism, that the weakest entities of life, are also the most worthy of protection and security. Liberalism, ironically and hypocritically forgets, who and what establishment, does the actual protecting and securing. Liberalism forgets there is a cost to imposing laws against people, prosecution, and punishment. Ironically, this is demonstrated by this contradiction.

If all are worthy of life, and a murderer kills another person, then isn't the murderer also worthy of life, forgiveness, and rehabilitation? Liberalism must deny the existence, and cause of murders, while at the same time, denying the need for justice, revenge, and punishment. Punishment of any kind, is contradictory to the premises of liberalism.

Indeed, i couldn't agree more...The modern man is so arrogant ,he's under the illusion that laws of nature no longer applies to him.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

This is the logical end of liberalism, that the weakest entities of life, are also the most worthy of protection and security. Liberalism, ironically and hypocritically forgets, who and what establishment, does the actual protecting and securing. Liberalism forgets there is a cost to imposing laws against people, prosecution, and punishment. Ironically, this is demonstrated by this contradiction.

If all are worthy of life, and a murderer kills another person, then isn't the murderer also worthy of life, forgiveness, and rehabilitation? Liberalism must deny the existence, and cause of murders, while at the same time, denying the need for justice, revenge, and punishment. Punishment of any kind, is contradictory to the premises of liberalism.

Indeed, i couldn't agree more...The modern man is so arrogant ,he's under the illusion that laws of nature no longer applies to him.

As usual you haven't thought anything through. Many innocent people have been executed or are on death row because they don't have the money for a decent defence. Of course some people deserve it, but how do you weed them out from those who don't? The fact is you can't, so the death penalty shouldn't be an option. Fortunately most civilised countries outlawed it long ago.

[johngalthasspoken]

As usual you haven't thought anything through. Many innocent people have been executed or are on death row because they don't have the money for a decent defence. Of course some people deserve it, but how do you weed them out from those who don't? The fact is you can't, so the death penalty shouldn't be an option. Luckily most civilised countries outlawed it long ago.

Dear woman, if you read my comments,i clearly stated that the system should be made more efficient so that innocent people are not convicted.capital punishment is a necessary evil & i support it on principle..You are such a sentimentalist,that you can't argue on a purely logical and empirical basis.
Researchers have found Most British voters support the reintroduction of capital punishment,so luckily most Brits aren't as naive as you.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

As usual you haven't thought anything through. Many innocent people have been executed or are on death row because they don't have the money for a decent defence. Of course some people deserve it, but how do you weed them out from those who don't? The fact is you can't, so the death penalty shouldn't be an option. Luckily most civilised countries outlawed it long ago.

Dear woman, if you read my comments,i clearly stated that the system should be made more efficient so that innocent people are not convicted.capital punishment is a necessary evil & i support it on principle..You are such a sentimentalist,that you can't argue on a purely logical and empirical basis.
Researchers have found Most British voters support the reintroduction of capital punishment,so luckily most Brits aren't as naive as you.

How are you going to make the system more efficient?
(I've never stated what my sex is).

[ForgedinHell]

I'm really tired of humanitarians speaking about violence as if it is opposed to human nature. Civilization merely forces humans to turn their instincts for cruelty, hostility and hunting against themselves. It creates that bad conscience. Violence is a very human phenomenon. Without the repressive nature of the law, violence is a very common and acceptable feature of human society.only a sheltered mind would think otherwise.
There is nothing wrong with capital punishment & we need to make the system more efficient and effective here in America.I do not consider killing another human being to be inherently wrong and I don't believe in the sanctity of human life,i'm not a humanist. you have to look at the cost/benefit of keeping a criminal alive.

When the state murders a person, it takes from all of us, a piece of our human dignity. It lessens the value of our lives and diminishes our rights. And when the state robs us of our dignity, it is like we are being raped.

You are such a sentimentalist FIH

No, I am a realist. There is nothing sentimental about sticking up and fighting for liberty and civil rights.

[ForgedinHell]

As usual you haven't thought anything through. Many innocent people have been executed or are on death row because they don't have the money for a decent defence. Of course some people deserve it, but how do you weed them out from those who don't? The fact is you can't, so the death penalty shouldn't be an option. Luckily most civilised countries outlawed it long ago.

Dear woman, if you read my comments,i clearly stated that the system should be made more efficient so that innocent people are not convicted.capital punishment is a necessary evil & i support it on principle..You are such a sentimentalist,that you can't argue on a purely logical and empirical basis.
Researchers have found Most British voters support the reintroduction of capital punishment,so luckily most Brits aren't as naive as you.

You can never have a system where no innocent person is killed on death row. That is impossible. I believe about a couple of years ago the state crime lab in North Carolina was discovered to have falsified numerous forensic reports. Based on some of those reports, seven people ended up on death row, I think a number of them had been executed before the fraud was uncovered. The auditing agency that audited the lab for 20 years was the largest auditing agency in the US. It was also the oldest. It would audit the lab by asking the lab to hand it over five files for review. That was it. That same auditing has also been in use by other crime labs throughout the US.

Project Innocence, headed by the "evil Jew" Barry Scheck, has freed a number of people based on DNA evidence. Here is what the major news is not telling people: More than 25% of the people released by the project gave confessions. We literally have a criminal justice system in the US that produces a huge amount of false confessions. One of the most famous cases was a sheriff who falsely confessed to child molestation.

The National Academy of Science has produced a forensic report that outright states most of the "forensic science" used in the legal system is completely unscientific. Yet, even after the report, the same fraudulent evidence comes in. You know how persuasive scientific evidence is before a jury? It's huge.

Extrapolate the above and there is a good chance that about 50% of the people in US prisons are innocent.

[johngalthasspoken]

Well Forged, what are your thoughts on Anders Breivik's 21 year prison sentence ? what is wrong with condemning someone like him to death ?

And NO, i DON'T hate Jews, i just get carried away with the rhetoric sometimes.after-all,this IS the internet. you need to take a fucking chill pill and stop getting all worked up over someone calling you names. sheesh

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Well Forged, what are your thoughts on Anders Breivik's 21 year prison sentence ? what is wrong with condemning someone like him to death ?

And NO, i DON'T hate Jews, i just get carried away with the rhetoric sometimes.after-all,this IS the internet. you need to take a fucking chill pill and stop getting all worked up over someone calling you names. sheesh

You soooo miss the point!

[The Voice of Time]

Well Forged, what are your thoughts on Anders Breivik's 21 year prison sentence ? what is wrong with condemning someone like him to death ?

I'm Norwegian and on behalf of the Norwegian spirit I find all forms of execution outright murder, tasteless, only possible by cold mentally ill people.

Anders Breivik had his reasons, as we all have for doing the things we do. Civilized societies tries to find out the reason, point out the faults of the reasoning, instead of trying such brutalism, worthy only of 3rd World Despots.

Anders Breivik will most likely stay in prison for the rest of his life. Life-Time sentences do not exist in Norway but people can be held in prison if they are dangerous to society or, in this case, a society dangerous for the individual.

Empathy is needed to overcome a person's desires to cause such damage to others, and only empathy will grant us the key to avoid it from happening again, which is the key principle of Norwegian Justice: to avoid it from happening again, which can only occur through meditation on the problem through a focus on the person's feelings, well-being, social relations and so forth. To find out what makes the bomb tick to such escalating proportions, not forget about the person as if it never happened. That's like trying to dodge the problem.

[johngalthasspoken]

I'm Norwegian and on behalf of the Norwegian spirit I find all forms of execution outright murder, tasteless, only possible by cold mentally ill people.Anders Breivik had his reasons, as we all have for doing the things we do. Civilized societies tries to find out the reason, point out the faults of the reasoning, instead of trying such brutalism, worthy only of 3rd World Despots.

Oh please, spare me your pretentious "holier-than-thou" attitude..A light jail sentence for a mass murderer is a sign of a naive penal system.

Empathy is needed to overcome a person's desires to cause such damage to others, and only empathy will grant us the key to avoid it from happening again, which is the key principle of Norwegian Justice: to avoid it from happening again, which can only occur through meditation on the problem through a focus on the person's feelings, well-being, social relations and so forth. To find out what makes the bomb tick to such escalating proportions, not forget about the person as if it never happened. That's like trying to dodge the problem.

It is hard to prove one way or the other that capital punishment is a deterrent. But here is the evidence for my case. In the United States, it is not the greatest deterrent because we waste too much time with people on death row and rarely ever end up killing them. Compare this to Singapore, where the death penalty is a very quick and efficient process, there is far less serious crime. Deterrents work against premeditated murder, and not crime of passion (in which case I'd opt for manslaughter or something close to it).To say you have ethics on your side is subjective since each person abides by their own moral or ethical code. When a dog is nasty and bites another dog (just bites!) we are so quick to euthanize it. Why don't we throw dogs into prisons too? Ethically, we have no qualms putting them down, but when it comes to a serial killer (who does more than just bite), its a big deal. Furthermore, I devoutly believe in innocent until proven guilty and would rather let 10 guilty men go free than one innocent, so i believe in appeals.

[ForgedinHell]

Well Forged, what are your thoughts on Anders Breivik's 21 year prison sentence ? what is wrong with condemning someone like him to death ?

And NO, i DON'T hate Jews, i just get carried away with the rhetoric sometimes.after-all,this IS the internet. you need to take a fucking chill pill and stop getting all worked up over someone calling you names. sheesh

Will the state murdering him bring anyone back? Will it heal any wound? No, it won't. What the victims find is that they don't get any relief after the person is murdered. You know why? Because their losses are still there.

And in the mean time, what is the end result of having a society who lusts for murder as a form of justice? It cheapens everyone, and serves no useful purpose.

[johngalthasspoken]

Will the state murdering him bring anyone back? Will it heal any wound? No, it won't.

would putting him behind bars bring anyone back ?

What the victims find is that they don't get any relief after the person is murdered. You know why? Because their losses are still there.

how do you know this is true for all victim families? what is just for you isn't just for someone else.

And in the mean time, what is the end result of having a society who lusts for murder as a form of justice? It cheapens everyone, and serves no useful purpose.

More sentimental bullshit