How important is struggle to our nature?

[poet1b]

Being that the struggle for survival was the predominate activity of the human species, throughout most of our existence, and all life forms that we are aware of, I think it should be noted how critical this aspect of our nature is, and take due note.

I think it is a valid argument, that modern technology has predominately removed us from the struggle for survival, into a new arena, where mainly we ponder how much is enough.

In this modern world, any connection to death, slaughter, or loss of life is treated as a traumatic encounter, so separated are we from the life and death struggle of our world, that we have completely disconnected the correlation between the hamburger we buy, and the animal that was killed to provide the meat for that hamburger. Less than a century ago, most people lived on farms, where they raised the animals from birth to slaughter, and that connection, to the life and death struggle for survival, was firmly established.

In this day and age, all too easily survival becomes merely a matter of blending in, doing the absolute minimal, playing the odds, and adding to the illusions. We just keep doing whatever it is to keep the money flowing.

In the struggle for survival, we are tested regularly with do or die situations, and life is considerably cheaper. These tests of do or die give us an edge that modern society always seems bent on either removing or dulling, and this is where the disconnect between what is said and done, actions and consequences, is developed.

Conflict, struggle, conquest, being part of our nature, is probably critical to our continued advancement as a species. Isn't it reasonable to think we should seek how to embrace this part of our nature, without letting it control us, to harness this part of nature, and use it to forge a better world, rather than as a destructive force.

Is it reasonable to suggest that we need enemies, or at least great struggles, to continue to advance?

[ThemApples]

Yes, no need to unpack why!

[duszek]

I think that there is a lot of struggle going on on the psychological level. At school kids are framing each other and some feel too much stressed out and freak out by shooting for example.
When you have a job there is competition and scheming going on, and framing and gossip and slander and things like this.
And when you get home after work you cannot relax because your husband or wife is putting you under pressure, that´s why some people coined the expression "home front". I mean things like nagging.

And if all this becomes too much you commit suicide (like the two engineers at Renault) or take to drugs or to alcohol.

To keep money flowing is not easy for everyone. Look at the foreclosures in America.

[duszek]

Sometimes it may be necessary to hurl the rats and moles back, even if you are of a meek nature and it costs you a lot. To teach them some respect. In a politically correct way.

[artisticsolution]

Sometimes it may be necessary to hurl the rats and moles back, even if you are of a meek nature and it costs you a lot. To teach them some respect. In a politically correct way.

Is this how someone taught you respect?

Came back because I started thinking I might have sounded like I was being snotty. LOL Sorry... I am not. It is a real question.
I have been thinking alot about the consequences of our actions and how most like to "teach" someone a lesson but we very rarely want others to teach us one....either that or we think we have learned lessons on our own. While that may be true...that we all are correct in thinking we learn them on our own...I can't help but wonder if our "teaching" others lesson works or not. To me it is the same thing as controlling others or manipulating others to be the way we wish them to be or face the consequences. I mean we all do it to a degree...but I just wonder if it works the way we want it to.

Recently, I have wanted to "teach" a few people some lessons. But I find there is no good way about going about doing that....well...there is if I want to get involved...but I pretty much don't want to face the consequences of becoming involved. It is not that important to me to explain myself or clear up misunderstandings...mostly because sometimes it is a no win situation in that my thoughts are more complex than I have the ability to communicate them and my listeners are not exactly the type who are able to focus for as long as it would take. Needless to say there would be even more misunderstandings and accusations.

So I smile and say, we can agree to disagree...and let them tell the world misguided things about me. The latest is I lent my favorite book, "fear and trembling" to my mom...and she was so disturbed she wrote this:

"Every chance they get to zing in a million dollar word to impress the reader with their superior intellect they never fail to miss. They are hostile to Christianity, and they cannot understand the faith of Christians [...]

Philosophers are in constant need for everyone to bow down as they walk through the halls of higher learning. They would do well to forgo some of their useless education. [...]

Heaven help you if ever you do jump on the merry go round of philosophy. Your ass will spend years going around and around. You will ponder one theory after another and when someone proves that theory wrong the philosopher will just give you another theory, and another problem to solve, and on and on it goes leaving the poor fool who got messed up with it in the first place needing a psychiatric overhaul. Worse than that is the very real possibility of losing one's soul.

This brings me to atheism. The philosophers have never done anything to better society. They create nothing, and their doctrine eats like a shark. They spend their lives criticizing Christians. Please show me the hospitals they have built. or the orphanages. What schools have they erected? Which I might add, the very Schools they receive their education. [...]"

Anyway. when she gave this to me to read, she said, "this is the last time I want to talk about philosophy." Ensuring that I would be silenced as she knows I would abide by her wishes. Although, the next time we spoke...she asked me what I thought of her writings...which is when I just left it at we can agree to disagree.

But then...it worried her to think that I was going against God and so she read her letter to the whole family (who are Christians) and now I am once again the one they will be praying for my immortal soul...as it has been a long held belief that I am going to hell...lol. It would be easy to lie...and not take my consequences...but it's not my style. Besides...I hear you can go to hell for lying

[duszek]

You have to react somehow.
Trying to stay indifferent is also a sort of reaction.
The expression "to teach someone a lesson" is arrogant, but if people become overbearing you have to defend yourself somehow and to show them a limit. Then a new balance can be stroken.

Happy Easter !

[reasonemotion]

Your struggle is with your family, ie your mother. Christianity is not for everyone. Some inherit it, others gravitate towards it for reasons that are many. Then there are the people who question its validity. It seems you are consumed with fear via Christianity and this determines your action or inaction, either way it is reaction to situations you find yourself in. Surely, it would be to your advantage to shed this doctrination and start questioning why you felt the need to embrace it in the first place. At least you will find your voice again and your decisions will be your own not based on superstition.

[duszek]

Who is struggling with his family and consumed with fear via Christianity ?
Could you be more specific ?

Last Friday texts were being read in church, one of them about how Jesus said something to the high priest and someone hit him and said: this is how you dare to speak to the high priest ? And Jesus, who blessed the meek in the sermon on the mountain, was not meek himself this time and replied: if I am wrong then prove it, and if I am right then why do you beat me ?

The meek promote peace, but sometimes it may be better to offer resistance.

I agree with AS that it is not right to teach someone a lesson, adults have no right to educate each other.
So instead I opt for: if you tolerate crap you get crap.

[artisticsolution]

You have to react somehow.
Trying to stay indifferent is also a sort of reaction.
The expression "to teach someone a lesson" is arrogant, but if people become overbearing you have to defend yourself somehow and to show them a limit. Then a new balance can be stroken.

Happy Easter !

Happy belated Easter to you too! I took your advice (before you gave it...we must have had telepathy or something ) and decided that the next time my mom mentioned philosophy I would defend myself (in a respectful way) and "show them a limit" .

Anyway, everyone was over my house for Easter and in the evening my mom, sis and I decided to play cards at the table. So a recurring thought popped into my head that I decided to share. I said, "What if you were the only thing that was real and that other people were just robots inside that were just there to fool your perception of the world and your existence?" So my mom took that as her cue to bring up the perils of philosophy. She said, "people are so foolish to bother themselves about such nonsense. Of course we are here....I am talking to you aren't I? So philosophers go round and round asking senseless questions when the answer is so obvious. Personally, I prefer Psychology to really understand what makes people tick." I said, "That is fine for you...that is your preference...but it is not mine. I like philosophy because it makes me think more creatively. It is not necessarily a way to find solutions...there may be no solution to the problem...but it cause one to think of more questions. It opens up your creativity in order to even know such questioning is even possible. The problem that you mention about existence and knowing we are here because it is obvious that we are...is a very complex problem. One that I don't fully understand....you would be surprised as to the creativity and depth of the questions that philosophers have proposed. And then that brings about many other questions about other things that are fun to think about."

Believe it or not...she said, "Oh...now I get what you mean and why you are interested in it..." Then we discussed Rawls theory of justice and other interesting philosophical ideas. It ended up being a fun and lively conversation!

Can you believe it?

[The Voice of Time]

Can you believe it?

Philosophy is highly useful. Its most important question could perhaps be: what is the best way of thinking?

Philosophy deals a lot with "perspectives", that is, not just "ways" of viewing things, but more angles and techniques and methods.

Philosophy is, I dare say, one of the foundations of all the modern world. While existentialism doesn't provide much for "direct" insight into things, other thought helps largely to distinguish the "real" (have a deeper more useful truth) and that which is just simple and useless, not talking about unreal or false but more about "leading to somewhere you want to go".

Technology is made available because some people think from a perspective that offers insights not otherwise available. Aristotle was a useful man to emphasize the ways of nature, and although he was erroneous he made people inquire more and more about the actual deep and useful ways of nature, leading to sciences such as Mechanics. And about schools, Plato is kind-of famous for his Academy, so yes, philosophers have made schools. Probably a large part of ancient schools were built around philosophical interests or semi-philosophical. If they didn't build the schools at least they had them erected for their own purpose of teaching and sometimes inquiry.

[artisticsolution]

Can you believe it?

Philosophy is highly useful. Its most important question could perhaps be: what is the best way of thinking?

Philosophy deals a lot with "perspectives", that is, not just "ways" of viewing things, but more angles and techniques and methods.

Philosophy is, I dare say, one of the foundations of all the modern world. While existentialism doesn't provide much for "direct" insight into things, other thought helps largely to distinguish the "real" (have a deeper more useful truth) and that which is just simple and useless, not talking about unreal or false but more about "leading to somewhere you want to go".

Technology is made available because some people think from a perspective that offers insights not otherwise available. Aristotle was a useful man to emphasize the ways of nature, and although he was erroneous he made people inquire more and more about the actual deep and useful ways of nature, leading to sciences such as Mechanics. And about schools, Plato is kind-of famous for his Academy, so yes, philosophers have made schools. Probably a large part of ancient schools were built around philosophical interests or semi-philosophical. If they didn't build the schools at least they had them erected for their own purpose of teaching and sometimes inquiry.

Nice insight.

[duszek]

Anyway, everyone was over my house for Easter and in the evening my mom, sis and I decided to play cards at the table. So a recurring thought popped into my head that I decided to share. I said, "What if you were the only thing that was real and that other people were just robots inside that were just there to fool your perception of the world and your existence?" So my mom took that as her cue to bring up the perils of philosophy. She said, "people are so foolish to bother themselves about such nonsense. Of course we are here....I am talking to you aren't I? So philosophers go round and round asking senseless questions when the answer is so obvious. Personally, I prefer Psychology to really understand what makes people tick." I said, "That is fine for you...that is your preference...but it is not mine. I like philosophy because it makes me think more creatively. It is not necessarily a way to find solutions...there may be no solution to the problem...but it cause one to think of more questions. It opens up your creativity in order to even know such questioning is even possible. The problem that you mention about existence and knowing we are here because it is obvious that we are...is a very complex problem. One that I don't fully understand....you would be surprised as to the creativity and depth of the questions that philosophers have proposed. And then that brings about many other questions about other things that are fun to think about."

Believe it or not...she said, "Oh...now I get what you mean and why you are interested in it..." Then we discussed Rawls theory of justice and other interesting philosophical ideas. It ended up being a fun and lively conversation!

Can you believe it?

And the next step might be to ask your mother to make a psychological interpretation of the interaction between her, sis and you ...

[artisticsolution]

And the next step might be to ask your mother to make a psychological interpretation of the interaction between her, sis and you ...

Interesting...I have never thought of this. What do you mean "psychological interpretation"? What do you think this would do? I don't understand.

[duszek]

That way your mother could feel important too. She is interested in psychology and so she may get a chance to tell something interesting to her daughters. You had your turn as an expert in philosophy, she can have her turn as an expert in psychology.

It makes more sense to do such things when the situtation is still fresh, of course.

She attacked you a little bit and you defended yourself and argued successfully. A psychological interpretation is always interesting. All three of you could have given one and compared them. And this time your mother would have the best arguments at her disposal, probably.

[Impenitent]

isn't the beginning of life a struggle to get away, or more specifically out, from your mother?

-Imp