Teen Shot Dead By Police Officer

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tbieter
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Teen Shot Dead By Police Officer

Post by tbieter » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:58 pm

This event happened on July 16, 2010 in Duluth, Minnesota, where I lived from 1969 to 2005. What follows is the report published in the Duluth News Tribune on July 19. I have been thinking about the implications of the event.

What I am interested in initially is the reader's reaction to the report of the event. What do you think?


Teen shot dead by police officer

A 17-year-old boy whose friends said had been drinking earlier in the night died in the street near his Norton Park home late Thursday, shot by a Duluth police officer sitting behind the wheel of a squad car as the boy broke out the driver’s side window with a baseball bat.

Witnesses identified Joey Carl, who lived at 424 N. 79th Ave. W., as the victim.

Police said the teenager repeatedly and violently hit the squad car with a baseball bat as the squad attempted to back away after responding to a disturbance at the boy’s residence. The boy then swung the bat and broke the driver’s side window of the squad, police said. The three-year officer shot once, striking the boy.

During a Friday morning news conference at City Hall, Duluth Police Chief Gordon Ramsay said that police responded to the 400 block of 79th Avenue West at 11:40 p.m. to a report of a 17-year-old inside the home breaking a TV and smashing windows. The reporting party left the home and was waiting outside.

While police were responding, numerous other 911 calls were received of windows being smashed, Ramsay said.
“As the first officer arrived, the male immediately ran up to the squad car and began swinging a baseball bat, striking the car repeatedly in the windshield, front end and passenger side,” Ramsay said.

“The officer began reversing the car and sideswiped a parked vehicle and came to a stop.
“The male then swung that bat at the driver’s window, shattering the glass, and continued the attack while the officer was still seated in the squad car. A single shot was fired from the officer’s duty weapon and the male with the bat retreated.”

Ramsay said the officer who shot the boy radioed for medical help, and he and other officers administered CPR until medical personnel could take over. Despite those attempts, the boy died at the scene.

Ramsay said the officer who shot the boy is a three-year member of the department and has been placed on paid administrative leave as is standard procedure in such incidents. His name was not being immediately released.

Minnesota law authorizes the use of deadly force by a peace officer to protect the officer or another from apparent death or great bodily harm.

Ramsay declined to take questions because he said there was no other information that could be released. He said the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension will investigate the shooting. Its investigators were on the scene Friday.

“Our investigators collect evidence at the scene, interview witnesses, and that whole process generally takes six to eight weeks,’’ said Doug Neville, spokesman for the BCA and Minnesota Department of Public Safety.
The BCA will then forward its reports to the St. Louis County Attorney’s Office. County Attorney Melanie Ford’s office could make the charging decision, or she could farm the case out to another county for independent review.

‘EVERY WINDOW IN
THE HOUSE IS BUSTED’
Carl had apparently become enraged in a dispute at his home, possibly with his father, and then used a bat to smash the windows of a Ford pickup in their driveway, witnesses said.

THE HOUSE IS BUSTED’
Carl had apparently become enraged in a dispute at his home, possibly with his father, and then used a bat to smash the windows of a Ford pickup in their driveway, witnesses said.

One neighbor said he recognized Carl and saw him chase a police car and hit the squad with the bat, including breaking the driver’s side window.

Another neighbor, Robin Overby, who lives next to the Carls, said, “Every window in their house and his dad’s truck is busted. He (Joey) really went off.”

Overby said he saw the body still lying, covered, in the street about 1:30 a.m.
“He wasn’t a bad kid. He had some problems. But nothing like this,” Overby said. “It’s not good.”

Linda Iverson, another neighbor, said she heard “pounding” sounds of the bat hitting vehicles and then heard someone she believed was a police officer talking to Carl, then heard a shot.
“It sounded like he really tried to talk Joey out of it. I could hear him say, ‘Joey, don’t do this, let’s talk,’ ” Iverson said. “The shot really didn’t sound any louder than the pounding noises.”
Another neighbor said they heard a man say: “Joey, you’re going to jail tonight,” and then heard a single gunshot.

Three of Carl’s friends — Nate Yost, Ben LaFontaine and Austin Overfors — said they had been at a bonfire in Morgan Park with Carl earlier in the evening that was broken up by police. They said Carl was cited by police for underage drinking and taken away from the bonfire in a squad car.

His friends said Carl later texted them that he got a ride home from police. The friends told the News Tribune that when they walked to Carl’s house they found it surrounded by police and were told the situation with Carl was “not good.”

It’s the second officer involved shooting in the Northland in the past two months. On June 12, Minnesota State Trooper Travis Pearson shot and killed Donnie Joe Lira at Lira’s home near Cherry after Lira loaded and pointed a rifle at Pearson and refused repeated commands by the trooper to drop the gun

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Gustaf
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Re: Teen Shot Dead By Police Officer

Post by Gustaf » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:34 am

Assuming the events are substantially as reported, the victim deserved to die, as does anyone who brings a baseball bat to a gunfight. The world has one less idiot now.

tbieter
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Re: Teen Shot Dead By Police Officer

Post by tbieter » Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:54 am

I first learned of this incident from an evening report on a TV news program here in St. Paul. The brief report stated, in substance, that 'a teen-ager was shot and killed when he attacked the Duluth police with a baseball bat.' The report captured my interest and attention.

Regarding Joey Carl, I wondered what internal and external influences combined to cause Joey's behavour which resulted in his death?

tbieter
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Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

Re: Teen Shot Dead By Police Officer

Post by tbieter » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:33 am

Obituary in the Duluth News Tribune:

JOSEPH (JOEY) ANTHONY CARL
Joseph (Joey) Anthony Carl, 17, of Duluth, died tragically Thursday, Aug. 5, 2010.

He was born Jan. 21, 1993, in Duluth to Melissa Joan Dardar and Anthony Edward Carl.

Joey was starting his senior year at Central High School this fall. He enjoyed sports, "chillin'" with his friends, little kids, the outdoors, fishing, snowboarding, drawing, video games, or a simple game of catch. Joey had a huge smile, sparkling eyes, and a loud laugh that brightened everyone's lives.

Joey is survived by his father, Tony of Duluth; his mother, Melissa Dardar of Grandview, Wis.; his other mom, Jeanette Herubin of Duluth; his sisters Rachael Carl of Duluth, and Nicole (Bubba) Martin of Miss.; his paternal grandparents, Edward and Connie Carl of The Villages, Fla.; his maternal grandparents, James Dardar of Golden Meadows, La. and Elsie Soudelier of Larose, La.; uncles Tim Carl and his children, Lauren and Jared Carl of Duluth, Dan (Kim) Carl and their children Kylee, Kacie and Cole Carl of Anoka, Minn., John Dardar of Houma, La.; aunt Gwen Johnson of Scott, La.; nieces and nephew Shayla, Jade and Timmy III; and his special friend, Lindsey Olsen of Duluth. Joey truly loved his sister Rachael. Joey will be forever remembered and sadly missed by all who knew him.

VISITATION: 12 noon until the 1 p.m. service Thursday, Aug. 12, in Dougherty Funeral Home. Burial will be at Calvary Cemetery. Memorials may be directed to the donor's choice. Arrangements by Dougherty Funeral Home, 600 E. Second St., Duluth, (218) 727-3555.
_________________________________

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/ ... ey%20Carl/

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/ ... ey%20Carl/

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John
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Re: Teen Shot Dead By Police Officer

Post by John » Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:36 am

Gustaf wrote:Assuming the events are substantially as reported, the victim deserved to die, as does anyone who brings a baseball bat to a gunfight. The world has one less idiot now.
Of course he didn't deserve to die. And that's not the same as saying the cop had no option but to shoot him but how can anyone say that what appears to be an emotionally disturbed 17 year old deserves to die.

chaz wyman
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Re: Teen Shot Dead By Police Officer

Post by chaz wyman » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:48 pm


Whilst one might be tempted to invoke the Darwin Prize for being stupid enough to attack an armed man with a base-ball bat, I would also dismiss the police officer for being careless and stupid.
Let's image that he incident was accurately reported.
Breaking windows and other acts of vandalism is not a capital offence and it is not the duty of a police officer to execute a minor in a public street.
The officer was not in any real danger and there was no evidence that any person had been hurt by the boy.
The police officer was not in any real danger and could have driven forward, even if he knocked the boy over the boy would have not been killed.
He could have exited the car from the near-side door, then attempted to arrest the boy or shot him in a non fatal way.
He could have remained in the car and called for back-up. Police officers are usually not alone -where was his partner?
But instead he chose to attack the boy rather than take other measures. We do not need police officers who have no control of their actions.


tbieter wrote:This event happened on July 16, 2010 in Duluth, Minnesota, where I lived from 1969 to 2005. What follows is the report published in the Duluth News Tribune on July 19. I have been thinking about the implications of the event.

What I am interested in initially is the reader's reaction to the report of the event. What do you think?


Teen shot dead by police officer

A 17-year-old boy whose friends said had been drinking earlier in the night died in the street near his Norton Park home late Thursday, shot by a Duluth police officer sitting behind the wheel of a squad car as the boy broke out the driver’s side window with a baseball bat.

Witnesses identified Joey Carl, who lived at 424 N. 79th Ave. W., as the victim.

Police said the teenager repeatedly and violently hit the squad car with a baseball bat as the squad attempted to back away after responding to a disturbance at the boy’s residence. The boy then swung the bat and broke the driver’s side window of the squad, police said. The three-year officer shot once, striking the boy.

During a Friday morning news conference at City Hall, Duluth Police Chief Gordon Ramsay said that police responded to the 400 block of 79th Avenue West at 11:40 p.m. to a report of a 17-year-old inside the home breaking a TV and smashing windows. The reporting party left the home and was waiting outside.

While police were responding, numerous other 911 calls were received of windows being smashed, Ramsay said.
“As the first officer arrived, the male immediately ran up to the squad car and began swinging a baseball bat, striking the car repeatedly in the windshield, front end and passenger side,” Ramsay said.

“The officer began reversing the car and sideswiped a parked vehicle and came to a stop.
“The male then swung that bat at the driver’s window, shattering the glass, and continued the attack while the officer was still seated in the squad car. A single shot was fired from the officer’s duty weapon and the male with the bat retreated.”

Ramsay said the officer who shot the boy radioed for medical help, and he and other officers administered CPR until medical personnel could take over. Despite those attempts, the boy died at the scene.

Ramsay said the officer who shot the boy is a three-year member of the department and has been placed on paid administrative leave as is standard procedure in such incidents. His name was not being immediately released.

Minnesota law authorizes the use of deadly force by a peace officer to protect the officer or another from apparent death or great bodily harm.

Ramsay declined to take questions because he said there was no other information that could be released. He said the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension will investigate the shooting. Its investigators were on the scene Friday.

“Our investigators collect evidence at the scene, interview witnesses, and that whole process generally takes six to eight weeks,’’ said Doug Neville, spokesman for the BCA and Minnesota Department of Public Safety.
The BCA will then forward its reports to the St. Louis County Attorney’s Office. County Attorney Melanie Ford’s office could make the charging decision, or she could farm the case out to another county for independent review.

‘EVERY WINDOW IN
THE HOUSE IS BUSTED’
Carl had apparently become enraged in a dispute at his home, possibly with his father, and then used a bat to smash the windows of a Ford pickup in their driveway, witnesses said.

THE HOUSE IS BUSTED’
Carl had apparently become enraged in a dispute at his home, possibly with his father, and then used a bat to smash the windows of a Ford pickup in their driveway, witnesses said.

One neighbor said he recognized Carl and saw him chase a police car and hit the squad with the bat, including breaking the driver’s side window.

Another neighbor, Robin Overby, who lives next to the Carls, said, “Every window in their house and his dad’s truck is busted. He (Joey) really went off.”

Overby said he saw the body still lying, covered, in the street about 1:30 a.m.
“He wasn’t a bad kid. He had some problems. But nothing like this,” Overby said. “It’s not good.”

Linda Iverson, another neighbor, said she heard “pounding” sounds of the bat hitting vehicles and then heard someone she believed was a police officer talking to Carl, then heard a shot.
“It sounded like he really tried to talk Joey out of it. I could hear him say, ‘Joey, don’t do this, let’s talk,’ ” Iverson said. “The shot really didn’t sound any louder than the pounding noises.”
Another neighbor said they heard a man say: “Joey, you’re going to jail tonight,” and then heard a single gunshot.

Three of Carl’s friends — Nate Yost, Ben LaFontaine and Austin Overfors — said they had been at a bonfire in Morgan Park with Carl earlier in the evening that was broken up by police. They said Carl was cited by police for underage drinking and taken away from the bonfire in a squad car.

His friends said Carl later texted them that he got a ride home from police. The friends told the News Tribune that when they walked to Carl’s house they found it surrounded by police and were told the situation with Carl was “not good.”

It’s the second officer involved shooting in the Northland in the past two months. On June 12, Minnesota State Trooper Travis Pearson shot and killed Donnie Joe Lira at Lira’s home near Cherry after Lira loaded and pointed a rifle at Pearson and refused repeated commands by the trooper to drop the gun

tbieter
Posts: 1200
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:45 pm
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

Re: Teen Shot Dead By Police Officer

Post by tbieter » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:05 pm

chaz wyman: "Whilst one might be tempted to invoke the Darwin Prize for being stupid enough to attack an armed man with a base-ball bat, I would also dismiss the police officer for being careless and stupid.
Let's image that he incident was accurately reported.
Breaking windows and other acts of vandalism is not a capital offence and it is not the duty of a police officer to execute a minor in a public street.
The officer was not in any real danger and there was no evidence that any person had been hurt by the boy.
The police officer was not in any real danger and could have driven forward, even if he knocked the boy over the boy would have not been killed.
He could have exited the car from the near-side door, then attempted to arrest the boy or shot him in a non fatal way.
He could have remained in the car and called for back-up. Police officers are usually not alone -where was his partner?
But instead he chose to attack the boy rather than take other measures. We do not need police officers who have no control of their actions."

tbieter: The public does not understand the first rule of policing when an officer responds to a situation. The police officer's safety is the primary consideration. He is not obligated to try other alternatives that may put him in a greater danger of injury or death.

tbieter
Posts: 1200
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:45 pm
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

Re: Teen Shot Dead By Police Officer

Post by tbieter » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:22 pm

"Obituary in the Duluth News Tribune:

JOSEPH (JOEY) ANTHONY CARL
Joseph (Joey) Anthony Carl, 17, of Duluth, died tragically Thursday, Aug. 5, 2010."

Enraged, Joey attacked an occupied police car with a baseball bat and was shot dead.
Should this sentence have been included in the obituary? I think so. If I'm dedicated to truth, how can I not think so?
________________
http://obituaryguide.com/index.php

chaz wyman
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Re: Teen Shot Dead By Police Officer

Post by chaz wyman » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:10 pm

tbieter wrote:chaz wyman: "Whilst one might be tempted to invoke the Darwin Prize for being stupid enough to attack an armed man with a base-ball bat, I would also dismiss the police officer for being careless and stupid.
Let's image that he incident was accurately reported.
Breaking windows and other acts of vandalism is not a capital offence and it is not the duty of a police officer to execute a minor in a public street.
The officer was not in any real danger and there was no evidence that any person had been hurt by the boy.
The police officer was not in any real danger and could have driven forward, even if he knocked the boy over the boy would have not been killed.
He could have exited the car from the near-side door, then attempted to arrest the boy or shot him in a non fatal way.
He could have remained in the car and called for back-up. Police officers are usually not alone -where was his partner?
But instead he chose to attack the boy rather than take other measures. We do not need police officers who have no control of their actions."

tbieter: The public does not understand the first rule of policing when an officer responds to a situation. The police officer's safety is the primary consideration. He is not obligated to try other alternatives that may put him in a greater danger of injury or death.

It does not take much imagination to realise that a police officer in a car is in no danger from a boy with a bat.
Get a life! The officer should be dismissed, or put on office duties.


tbieter
Posts: 1200
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:45 pm
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

Re: Teen Shot Dead By Police Officer

Post by tbieter » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:09 pm


John W. Kelly
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Re: Teen Shot Dead By Police Officer

Post by John W. Kelly » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:02 pm

chaz wyman wrote: It does not take much imagination to realise that a police officer in a car is in no danger from a boy with a bat.
Ha! Easy to say from the comfort of your keyboard!

chaz wyman
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Re: Teen Shot Dead By Police Officer

Post by chaz wyman » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:47 am

John W. Kelly wrote:
chaz wyman wrote: It does not take much imagination to realise that a police officer in a car is in no danger from a boy with a bat.
Ha! Easy to say from the comfort of your keyboard!

Try and use your imagination! It is not a capital offence for a boy to vandalise a police car.


tbieter
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Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:45 pm
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Re: Teen Shot Dead By Police Officer

Post by tbieter » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:48 am

chaz wyman wrote:
John W. Kelly wrote:
chaz wyman wrote: It does not take much imagination to realise that a police officer in a car is in no danger from a boy with a bat.
Ha! Easy to say from the comfort of your keyboard!

Try and use your imagination! It is not a capital offence for a boy to vandalise a police car.

chaz,

Are any of Joey's actions blameworthy? Why or why not?

chaz wyman
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Re: Teen Shot Dead By Police Officer

Post by chaz wyman » Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:05 am

]chaz,

Are any of Joey's actions blameworthy? Why or why not?

Of course. Vandalism , the destruction of property is worthy of punishment. That would be an arrest, a fair trial and some remedial sentence.
As he was a minor, the possibility that his mental state might be examined too.

Summary execution is not a punishment that is befitting of such a crime, and it is not the duty of a police officer to carry out such a punishment.



[/b][/quote]

John W. Kelly
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Re: Teen Shot Dead By Police Officer

Post by John W. Kelly » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:46 pm

chaz wyman wrote: Try and use your imagination!
My imagination works fine. I could ruin someone's day with just a baseball bat. Are you claiming a bat isn't potentially fatal? Maybe the kid commited suicde by cop...who knows?

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