Gun Control

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iambiguous
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Re: Gun Control

Post by iambiguous »

henry quirk wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:16 pm
No, I'm the one asking those who claim to have a soul to explain to me how they have convinced themselves that they do. Given that there are many, many religions out there that insist that all souls are obligated to follow the One True Path to immortality and salvation. Their own path. I suggested the Vatican to you because your friend Mannie is likely able to advise you what to expect from them given the extent to which he believes that Catholicism itself reflects True Christianity.
I've explained -- multiple times -- how I got there. When I do: you pooh-pooh.
That's because your explanation revolves around a world of words in which we are just expected to believe that what you believe "in your head" about this soul and the Deist God need be as far as you go. Like Mannie's "proof" that the Christian God resides in Heaven. Both of your "rational" and "logical" explanations are accompanied by zero substantive evidence. Unless, with Mannie, you want to call those videos evidence.
Mr. Snippet again.
henry quirk wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:16 pm You been snippin' quite a bit yourself lately.
Really? Note a few examples.

Anyway, I'm more than willing to allow others here following our exchange to decide for themselves which of us deserves the title Mr. Snippet.
tell me what on earth his point here really has to do with mine
henry quirk wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:16 pm And what does yours have to do with mine?
Let's rewind...
What's that got to do with my point? Both sides insist it's the other side who is "doing wrong" with their property. Both sides take the high road. It only then comes down to the part where an incident ignites a spark that ignites their rage and the weapons they have access to.
henry quirk wrote: Sun Jul 24, 2022 11:28 pmYeah, I asked the same question: becuz these hillbillies, rednecks, crackers, niggas, defectives, and pinheads do wrong with their property, I should give up mine, why?
Again, what's that got to do with my point? Calling other people names and setting them apart from yourself, doesn't change the fact it's not only you who gets to say when others do wrong with their property.

And gun laws are passed in any particular community precisely because different people view private citizens ownings guns [especially military grade weapons] given different sets of assumptions: https://gun-control.procon.org/
Note to others:

Make up your own minds.
henry quirk wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:16 pm Again: becuz others do wrong with their property, I, when I've done no wrong with it, should be deprived mine?
Again, because it's always you who gets to decide when in regard to guns, others are doing wrong.

We live in a country in which "democracy and the rule of law" is something citizens either take seriously or they don't. So, if, down the road, citizens elect a government that passes a law making the buying and selling of bazookas illegal, you either abide by the law until you can elect a government to change the law or you go Ruby Ridge on us. Fuck the law! I decide what is right and wrong. My God given Soul is never wrong about these things. And I'll blow away anyone who dares to challenge me. Or get blown away myself.

Again, there's a part of me that can respect this and a part of me that cannot. But then re dasein that's what being "fractured and fragmented" is all about. Arrogant, authoritarian bullies like you, on the other hand, "just know" that, in the end, they will have God on their side.
Just and unjust here are what you say they are.
henry quirk wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:16 pm Nope. Just and unjust are what naturally derive from a person's right to his life, liberty, and property.
In other words, natural and unnatural are what you say they are.

Well, not counting those times in which, in regard to the "big stuff" like guns and abortion, you did admit that you were in fact wrong.

Also...
And may well be wrong again.
henry quirk wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:16 pm It's possible, yeah. I may, in fact, be the kind of robot with no right to diddly that you believe you are. I'm open to your evidence: sock it to me.
Note to others:

Does anyone here actually believe that henry will ever admit that he is wrong about any of the "big stuff"?

Think about it...

Like all the rest of us, he has no way to really know what new experiences, new relationships or access to new information and knowledge will come his way. Something extraordinary that might actually persuade him to change his mind. After all isn't that how life does unfold in a world teeming with contingency, chance and change. We just don't ever really know for certain what's around that next corner.

Unless, of course, we live in a wholly determined universe and nothing that we do could we ever have not done. But henry has his own arrogant, authoritarian dogma regarding that too.
Of course: the Ruby Ridge mentality. In America there is the Constitution, there is democracy and the rule of law, there are elections to vote into office men and women to pass and enforce laws that folks all up and down the political spectrum favor.

But fuck that! Let's go back to the law of the jungle where either might makes right or right makes might prevails. There's what you know "in your head" that constitutes justice -- just us -- and you'll barricade yourself on your property and fight to the death to preserve your own political prejudices. Derived ultimately from God Himself.

Somehow.
henry quirk wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:16 pm Yes.
Enough said about Mr. Snippet? 8)
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iambiguous
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Re: Gun Control

Post by iambiguous »

henry quirk wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:48 pm Becuz this thread, for a while, has been sumthin' other than intended, and becuz I'm thinkin' the back & forth between me and biggy is comin' to an end (at least here) let me steer it gently back with what seems the root question...

Becuz some misuse their property, or misuse a machine, to hurt or kill themselves or unjustly hurt or kill others, everyone ought be penalized in their ownership and use of similar properties or machines?
Right, like all of us can totally agree on when others are misusing their guns and/or behaving unjustly with them. Like guns were really no different from lawn mowers here.

Like it's not ultimately what henry construes to be misusing them or using them unjustly.

As though all those headlines relating to guns over the years don't clearly indicate that those on both sides of the issue are able to make reasonable points.

Back to the Second Amendment in the U.S. Constitution...of a nation said to revolve around democracy and the rule of law.

This part: "A well regulated Militia..."

What, there is absolutely only one way in which to construe the meaning of this? As henry's Soul does?

And if the federal or a state government passes a law making the buying and selling of military grade weapons a crime...that's completely at odds with a "free state" regulating the right to bear arms?
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henry quirk
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Re: Gun Control

Post by henry quirk »

I'm more than willing to allow others here following our exchange to decide for themselves which of us deserves the title Mr. Snippet.
Works for me.

*
Make up your own minds.
Yep, do that.

*
because it's always you who gets to decide when in regard to guns
When it comes to mine? Damned straight.

*
Does anyone here actually believe that henry will ever admit that he is wrong about any of the "big stuff"?
I did you a solid...
henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 1:44 pmbiggy wants to interrogate you about all the times I've been wrong, in-forum, on BIG STUFF, and have admitted to bein' wrong. Just a heads up.
FlashDangerpants wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 2:04 pmUhm ok. I can confirm you have a unique talent in such matters.
...so get to it! Interrogate away!

*
like all of us can totally agree on when others are misusing their guns
Sure we can. Every last one of us will agree pluggin' somebody, when that somebody has done nuthin' to us, is wrong. And: every last of one us will agree pluggin' somebody, when that somebody is tryn' his best to hurt us, is self-defense.
commonsense
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Re: Gun Control

Post by commonsense »

If it’s a matter of property, all the gun owners can keep their guns and take them out of display cases and look at them. With a total ban on bullets this would work well.
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iambiguous
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Re: Gun Control

Post by iambiguous »

henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:11 pm
I'm more than willing to allow others here following our exchange to decide for themselves which of us deserves the title Mr. Snippet.
Works for me.
Okay, but note a few examples of my own snippets. And note how I still respond to your points with whole paragraphs at times. While from you we are lucky to get just a few words. Basically [from my frame of mind] just setting yourself up to look foolish.

For example:
tell me what on earth [your] point here really has to do with mine
henry quirk wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:16 pm And what does yours have to do with mine?
Let's rewind...
What's that got to do with my point? Both sides insist it's the other side who is "doing wrong" with their property. Both sides take the high road. It only then comes down to the part where an incident ignites a spark that ignites their rage and the weapons they have access to.
henry quirk wrote: Sun Jul 24, 2022 11:28 pm Yeah, I asked the same question: becuz these hillbillies, rednecks, crackers, niggas, defectives, and pinheads do wrong with their property, I should give up mine, why?
Again, what's that got to do with my point? Calling other people names and setting them apart from yourself, doesn't change the fact it's not only you who gets to say when others do wrong with their property.

And gun laws are passed in any particular community precisely because different people view private citizens ownings guns [especially military grade weapons] given different sets of assumptions: https://gun-control.procon.org/
Make up your own minds.
henry quirk wrote: Sun Jul 24, 2022 11:28 pm Yep, do that.
It doesn't embarrass you to be reduced down to this in reacting to which of us is ignoring the others points above?
Again, because it's always you who gets to decide when in regard to guns, others are doing wrong.

We live in a country in which "democracy and the rule of law" is something citizens either take seriously or they don't. So, if, down the road, citizens elect a government that passes a law making the buying and selling of bazookas illegal, you either abide by the law until you can elect a government to change the law or you go Ruby Ridge on us. Fuck the law! I decide what is right and wrong. My God given Soul is never wrong about these things. And I'll blow away anyone who dares to challenge me. Or get blown away myself.

Again, there's a part of me that can respect this and a part of me that cannot. But then re dasein that's what being "fractured and fragmented" is all about. Arrogant, authoritarian bullies like you, on the other hand, "just know" that, in the end, they will have God on their side.
henry quirk wrote: Sun Jul 24, 2022 11:28 pm When it comes to mine? Damned straight.
Sure, if you lived entirely alone or in a small community of folks who think exactly like you do "damned straight" makes sense. But most of us live in larger communities...communities of folks who do not think the same way about citizenship and guns. Instead when it comes to "my guns" politics prevails. Only the fiercely fulminating fanatics like you insist that their personal opinions and political prejudices are the only ones that count. All the way to Ruby Ridge if necessary.

You can't even bring yourself to explore more in depth the arguments I make regarding individual value judgments and dasein. You simply have too much invested in the Real Me in sync with The Right Thing to do mentality embodied in the "psychology of objectivism" above. The cartoon character dogmatist.
Does anyone here actually believe that henry will ever admit that he is wrong about any of the "big stuff"?

Think about it...

Like all the rest of us, he has no way to really know what new experiences, new relationships or access to new information and knowledge will come his way. Something extraordinary that might actually persuade him to change his mind. After all isn't that how life does unfold in a world teeming with contingency, chance and change. We just don't ever really know for certain what's around that next corner.

Unless, of course, we live in a wholly determined universe and nothing that we do could we ever have not done. But henry has his own arrogant, authoritarian dogma regarding that too.
henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 1:44 pm I did you a solid...
henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 1:44 pm biggy wants to interrogate you about all the times I've been wrong, in-forum, on BIG STUFF, and have admitted to bein' wrong. Just a heads up.
FlashDangerpants wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 2:04 pmUhm ok. I can confirm you have a unique talent in such matters.
henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 1:44 pm ...so get to it! Interrogate away!
Okay, FlashDangerpants, note for us all of the "big stuff" issues that henry conceded that he was wrong about.
Right, like all of us can totally agree on when others are misusing their guns and/or behaving unjustly with them. Like guns were really no different from lawn mowers here.

Like it's not ultimately what henry construes to be misusing them or using them unjustly.

As though all those headlines relating to guns over the years don't clearly indicate that those on both sides of the issue are able to make reasonable points.

Back to the Second Amendment in the U.S. Constitution...of a nation said to revolve around democracy and the rule of law.

This part: "A well regulated Militia..."

What, there is absolutely only one way in which to construe the meaning of this? As henry's Soul does?

And if the federal or a state government passes a law making the buying and selling of military grade weapons a crime...that's completely at odds with a "free state" regulating the right to bear arms?
henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 1:44 pm Sure we can. Every last one of us will agree pluggin' somebody, when that somebody has done nuthin' to us, is wrong. And: every last of one us will agree pluggin' somebody, when that somebody is tryn' his best to hurt us, is self-defense.
Note to others:

Watch a few episodes of Fear Thy Neighbor. Note how both neighbors will often insist that only their own understanding of who did nothing and who did something is the true story.

Henry lives with his guns in this crystal clear thought up world that has almost nothing to do with the complex, convoluted nitty gritty reality of actual human confrontations. Clashes where there are countless variables that are often understood differently from different points of view.

Bear with him, okay?
commonsense
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Re: Gun Control

Post by commonsense »

The laws in this country are determined, if indirectly, by the majority of the people. If the majority wants to ban private gun ownership outright, then so be it. Those who won’t follow a total ban, if that’s what the majority calls for, should form their own enclaves with their own societies. Wait! They can have that now. It’s called lockdowns and jails and prisons and correctional institutions. Good luck to them all.
commonsense
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Re: Gun Control

Post by commonsense »

By Mr Snippet do you mean someone who makes a snide remark instead of a cogent counter argument? If so, there can be no doubt who deserves the label.
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henry quirk
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Re: Gun Control

Post by henry quirk »

If it’s a matter of property, all the gun owners can keep their guns and take them out of display cases and look at them. With a total ban on bullets this would work well.
Thank Crom for the art of reloading.

-----
The laws in this country are determined, if indirectly, by the majority of the people. If the majority wants to ban private gun ownership outright, then so be it. Those who won’t follow a total ban, if that’s what the majority calls for, should form their own enclaves with their own societies. Wait! They can have that now. It’s called lockdowns and jails and prisons and correctional institutions. Good luck to them all.
What a good boy you are... 🐶
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henry quirk
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Re: Gun Control

Post by henry quirk »

I still respond to your points with whole paragraphs at times. While from you we are lucky to get just a few words.
Yes, you talk and talk; I get in and get out.

*
Okay, FlashDangerpants, note for us all of the "big stuff" issues that henry conceded that he was wrong about.
No, biggy. You'll have to go him; he ain't comin' here. And: ask him; don't command.

*
Watch a few episodes of Fear Thy Neighbor. Note how both neighbors will often insist that only their own understanding of who did nothing and who did something is the true story.
Yes, watch the show. Ask yourself: becuz these hillbillies, rednecks, crackers, niggas, defectives, and pinheads do wrong with their property, I should give up, or have taken from me, mine?

*
Henry lives with his guns in this crystal clear thought up world that has almost nothing to do with the complex, convoluted nitty gritty reality of actual human confrontations.
Keep in mind: I'm the one who's out and about in the world everyday while biggy, as an obese agoraphobic, is house bound.
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attofishpi
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Re: Gun Control

Post by attofishpi »

henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:20 am
attofishpi wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:34 am
henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:23 am

Ideally, when whoever is teachin' (a parent, a sibling, a friend, etc.) gives the 👍

But, if you got the cash to buy it, ultimately, you decide if you drive it.
Correct me if I am wrong, as I have just skimmed the last page of this thread.

So.

We are comparing responsible use of an automobile (a machine that enables us to get from A to B quicker than running) with owning a gun (a machine that serves no purpose beyond hurting\killing others)?

Am I correct thus far?
For me: the thread is about property. I ask: Becuz some misuse their property, or misuse a machine, to hurt or kill themselves or unjustly hurt or kill others, everyone ought be penalized in their ownership and use of similar properties or machines? Cuz Joe does wrong with his, Stan, who's done no wrong, gets punished? The good must suffer with the bad?

But, as with all threads, this one meanders with various examples, comparisons, and agendas gettin' tossed into the mix.

As for cars and guns: you can drive thru a crowd with one and feed your family with the other, so: I'm not seein' your point in your last line/question.
So, it's worth risking more children to be massacred just so that some law abiding members of society can have fun with their guns?
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Re: Gun Control

Post by henry quirk »

So, it's worth risking more children to be massacred just so that some law abiding members of society can have fun with their guns?
So: the possibility kids might get off'd tomorrow is a good reason to deprive folks, who've killed no kids with theirs, of their property today?

If so, then it ain't just guns you gotta take. Cars and fists are the primary weapons used to off kids, with guns comin' in 3rd.

And: with guns, most kids are off'd accidentally, not cuz a nutjob targeted anyone (and, FYI, 60% of all gun deaths are suicides...mebbe we oughta consider takin' away everything a person can use to off himself or another).

So: let's take away cars and hands and guns (and toss the presumption of innocence right out on its antiquated keister).

And let's take away cities too, cuz most of America's gun violence happens in metropolises (we can start by levelin' Chicago).

As for fun: since I'm not keen on bein' totally dependent on stores, I hunt with my shotgun. Great fun trompin' thru the woods at daybreak to bag meat. And: I've self-defended with my shotgun. That was great fun too.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by attofishpi »

henry quirk wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:12 pm
So, it's worth risking more children to be massacred just so that some law abiding members of society can have fun with their guns?
So: the possibility kids might get off'd tomorrow is a good reason to deprive folks, who've killed no kids with theirs, of their property today?

If so, then it ain't just guns you gotta take. Cars and fists are the primary weapons used to off kids, with guns comin' in 3rd.

And: with guns, most kids are off'd accidentally, not cuz a nutjob targeted anyone (and, FYI, 60% of all gun deaths are suicides...mebbe we oughta consider takin' away everything a person can use to off himself or another).

So: let's take away cars and hands and guns (and toss the presumption of innocence right out on its antiquated keister).

And let's take away cities too, cuz most of America's gun violence happens in metropolises (we can start by levelin' Chicago).

As for fun: since I'm not keen on bein' totally dependent on stores, I hunt with my shotgun. Great fun trompin' thru the woods at daybreak to bag meat. And: I've self-defended with my shotgun. That was great fun too.
So, it's worth risking more children to be massacred just so that some law abiding members of society can have fun with their guns?
commonsense
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Re: Gun Control

Post by commonsense »

henry quirk wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:12 pm
So, it's worth risking more children to be massacred just so that some law abiding members of society can have fun with their guns?
So: the possibility kids might get off'd tomorrow is a good reason to deprive folks, who've killed no kids with theirs, of their property today?

If so, then it ain't just guns you gotta take. Cars and fists are the primary weapons used to off kids, with guns comin' in 3rd.

And: with guns, most kids are off'd accidentally, not cuz a nutjob targeted anyone (and, FYI, 60% of all gun deaths are suicides...mebbe we oughta consider takin' away everything a person can use to off himself or another).

So: let's take away cars and hands and guns (and toss the presumption of innocence right out on its antiquated keister).

And let's take away cities too, cuz most of America's gun violence happens in metropolises (we can start by levelin' Chicago).

As for fun: since I'm not keen on bein' totally dependent on stores, I hunt with my shotgun. Great fun trompin' thru the woods at daybreak to bag meat. And: I've self-defended with my shotgun. That was great fun too.
Just because it would be silly to take everything away is no reason not to take guns away. Just because good citizens have not killed anyone is no reason not to make guns illegal to own. Just because the gun safety movement wants to take your assault rifle away is no reason to fear for the loss of all your guns. Try again with a different argument.
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henry quirk
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Re: Gun Control

Post by henry quirk »

attofishpi wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:20 pm
henry quirk wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:12 pm
So, it's worth risking more children to be massacred just so that some law abiding members of society can have fun with their guns?
So: the possibility kids might get off'd tomorrow is a good reason to deprive folks, who've killed no kids with theirs, of their property today?

If so, then it ain't just guns you gotta take. Cars and fists are the primary weapons used to off kids, with guns comin' in 3rd.

And: with guns, most kids are off'd accidentally, not cuz a nutjob targeted anyone (and, FYI, 60% of all gun deaths are suicides...mebbe we oughta consider takin' away everything a person can use to off himself or another).

So: let's take away cars and hands and guns (and toss the presumption of innocence right out on its antiquated keister).

And let's take away cities too, cuz most of America's gun violence happens in metropolises (we can start by levelin' Chicago).

As for fun: since I'm not keen on bein' totally dependent on stores, I hunt with my shotgun. Great fun trompin' thru the woods at daybreak to bag meat. And: I've self-defended with my shotgun. That was great fun too.
So, it's worth risking more children to be massacred just so that some law abiding members of society can have fun with their guns?
Oh, that's how it is: okay, let's play...

Becuz some misuse their property, or misuse a machine, to hurt or kill themselves or unjustly hurt or kill others, everyone ought be penalized in their ownership and use of similar properties or machines?
commonsense
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Re: Gun Control

Post by commonsense »

henry quirk wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:31 pm
attofishpi wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:20 pm
henry quirk wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:12 pm

So: the possibility kids might get off'd tomorrow is a good reason to deprive folks, who've killed no kids with theirs, of their property today?

If so, then it ain't just guns you gotta take. Cars and fists are the primary weapons used to off kids, with guns comin' in 3rd.

And: with guns, most kids are off'd accidentally, not cuz a nutjob targeted anyone (and, FYI, 60% of all gun deaths are suicides...mebbe we oughta consider takin' away everything a person can use to off himself or another).

So: let's take away cars and hands and guns (and toss the presumption of innocence right out on its antiquated keister).

And let's take away cities too, cuz most of America's gun violence happens in metropolises (we can start by levelin' Chicago).

As for fun: since I'm not keen on bein' totally dependent on stores, I hunt with my shotgun. Great fun trompin' thru the woods at daybreak to bag meat. And: I've self-defended with my shotgun. That was great fun too.
So, it's worth risking more children to be massacred just so that some law abiding members of society can have fun with their guns?
Oh, that's how it is: okay, let's play...

Becuz some misuse their property, or misuse a machine, to hurt or kill themselves or unjustly hurt or kill others, everyone ought be penalized in their ownership and use of similar properties or machines?
Are you trying to get someone to say no? If so, you’ll need to give a cogent reason for a negative opinion.
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