Abortion

Abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theory and other such hot topics.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

commonsense
Posts: 5087
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Re: Abortion

Post by commonsense »

henry quirk wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 5:53 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:41 amI think actually cs should have stuck with 'part of you.'
Mother and child are genetically dissimilar. Complicated mechanisms prevent the mother's body from rejecting the child's body. The child is inside Mom, certainly is dependent on mom, but is not part of her in same way her heart or liver is part of her.

And unlike her heart and liver, the child, if left alone in the womb, will naturally vacate the premises. It's not meant to stay there.

(again, I'm time-pressed...I'm doin' you an injustice with this response)
Sorry to quibble, but mother and child are neither genetically identical nor genetically dissimilar. The mother contributes her DNA to the fetus such that 1/2 of the fetal DNA is from the mother.

Also, there are flaws in the heart and liver analogy. All bodily organs are dependent on all other organs for their nourishment via the bloodstream which is oxygenated via the respiratory system and supplied with substrate via the digestive tract and detoxified via the kidneys and carried by blood vessels that are affected by endocrine substances under the influence of signals from the brain. All are necessary for the survival of the body.

The fetus is also dependent on all of the above, however, in contrast, the fetus is ejected like a parasite.
commonsense
Posts: 5087
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Re: Abortion

Post by commonsense »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:41 am
henry quirk wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 1:08 am
commonsense wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 10:49 pmBut that “baby in your womb”, though not a part of you, is your “baby”.
Yep. My 16 year old is mine. Now, do you think I mean this as he is my possession, or he is my responsibility?
I think actually cs should have stuck with 'part of you.'
Yes, I understand what you’re saying. I would synthesize our views thus:

Yes, part of you in view of shared physiology, and, yes, not a part of you in the sense that it can be viewed as a kind of infestation of the woman’s reproductive organs.
Iwannaplato
Posts: 6591
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Abortion

Post by Iwannaplato »

commonsense wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:00 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:41 am
henry quirk wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 1:08 am

Yep. My 16 year old is mine. Now, do you think I mean this as he is my possession, or he is my responsibility?
I think actually cs should have stuck with 'part of you.'
Yes, I understand what you’re saying. I would synthesize our views thus:

Yes, part of you in view of shared physiology, and, yes, not a part of you in the sense that it can be viewed as a kind of infestation of the woman’s reproductive organs.
Yes, though I wouldn't use 'infestation'. But, yes, I don't think it's neatly binary. Something the extremes of either side may not want to consider. But I lean towards choice for the mother, certainly legally. And who is the God or fetus that places the fetus or itself in harm's way? Making kids play Russian roulette is an odd behavior for a loving deity.
User avatar
Toppsy Kretts
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:17 pm

Re: Abortion

Post by Toppsy Kretts »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 12:08 am

Keep your snout out womens' freedoms, kristoturd (yeah, that's exactly what you are). I mean, you are oh so protective of your own...
To say that one sex cant have another say to the other sex is preposterous. If i ( a male) feel as if that our future child is deserving of life then i have the full HUMAN right to say Yae-or-Nae. a fetus is the beginning stages of a human. you define your cause simply because this said fetus doesn't have conscious thought nor can read, right, speak, or any other of the functionality traits one must have to live on earth. if Humans were meant to be able to abort a child beginning pregnancy then we would've had some secondary factor to smother the process and extract the baby from the woman's body herself, like a physical woman reaction within the body to exit said fetus.

Abortion was an accepted practice in ancient Greece and Rome. Greek philosopher Aristotle (384–322 B.C) wrote that “when couples have children in excess, let abortion be procured before sense and life have begun.” In the latter days of the Roman Empire, abortion was not considered homicide, but a crime against a husband who would be deprived of a potential child.

Now if your argument is that women whenever can abort than yes i strongly disagree and nor will i ever be changed to that thought, i do however suggest that if a 15 year old girl is raped and obviously does not have the necessary requirements to raise a child abortion would be an adequate resource. My foundation lays apun a God. If God was "okay" with it, then why wasn't it invented sooner??? Or -like i presented earlier- a womans reaction to the body physically not wanting the baby????
popeye1945
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Abortion

Post by popeye1945 »

What should be sacred is all life forms and the world that sustains them. The only holy thing should be that of a taboo against suffering, will my actions increase or decrease the suffering in this world?
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 13983
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Abortion

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Toppsy Kretts wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:46 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 12:08 am

Keep your snout out womens' freedoms, kristoturd (yeah, that's exactly what you are). I mean, you are oh so protective of your own...
To say that one sex cant have another say to the other sex is preposterous. If i ( a male) feel as if that our future child is deserving of life then i have the full HUMAN right to say Yae-or-Nae. a fetus is the beginning stages of a human. you define your cause simply because this said fetus doesn't have conscious thought nor can read, right, speak, or any other of the functionality traits one must have to live on earth. if Humans were meant to be able to abort a child beginning pregnancy then we would've had some secondary factor to smother the process and extract the baby from the woman's body herself, like a physical woman reaction within the body to exit said fetus.

Abortion was an accepted practice in ancient Greece and Rome. Greek philosopher Aristotle (384–322 B.C) wrote that “when couples have children in excess, let abortion be procured before sense and life have begun.” In the latter days of the Roman Empire, abortion was not considered homicide, but a crime against a husband who would be deprived of a potential child.

Now if your argument is that women whenever can abort than yes i strongly disagree and nor will i ever be changed to that thought, i do however suggest that if a 15 year old girl is raped and obviously does not have the necessary requirements to raise a child abortion would be an adequate resource. My foundation lays apun a God. If God was "okay" with it, then why wasn't it invented sooner??? Or -like i presented earlier- a womans reaction to the body physically not wanting the baby????
Your 'opinion' means nothing to me. Get back to me when you get pregnant, arsehole.
popeye1945
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Abortion

Post by popeye1945 »

LOL!! FUNDAMENTAL ORIFICE!!!
User avatar
Toppsy Kretts
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:17 pm

Re: Abortion

Post by Toppsy Kretts »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:24 am

Your 'opinion' means nothing to me. Get back to me when you get pregnant, arsehole.
i dont have to, its my obligation as a human to have these rights and procedures within being a male in the human race.
you account for your "reason" being founded on the mere fact that your a female, nothing more and nothing less.
i account my reason on the sheer fact that i am a male in the grand scheme of earth as a human male, and according to the Abrahamic God, the males word comes before the females. So i really think your pretty immature for thinking any other way ma'am.
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 6604
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Abortion

Post by Lacewing »

Toppsy Kretts wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:48 am i am a male in the grand scheme of earth as a human male, and according to the Abrahamic God, the males word comes before the females.
You're an idiot.
User avatar
Harbal
Posts: 9452
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Abortion

Post by Harbal »

Toppsy Kretts wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:48 am i dont have to, its my obligation as a human to have these rights and procedures within being a male in the human race.
What a fascinating sentence. It could almost have been written by someone with a basic grasp of how language works. :|
Iwannaplato
Posts: 6591
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Abortion

Post by Iwannaplato »

Lacewing wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:05 am
Toppsy Kretts wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:48 am i am a male in the grand scheme of earth as a human male, and according to the Abrahamic God, the males word comes before the females.
You're an idiot.
and/or troll.
Topsy Kretts [/] is almost the same spelling and is the author of a book in a film, The Number 23, with a person driven crazy, played by Jim Carrey, who gets an obsession with that number by reading the book.

I think that's a bit of an odd inspiration for a fundie Abrahamist. Not impossible, but it seems unlikely. And it's nice symbolism for someone who is driving someone else crazy, that is a troll.

Toppsy Kretts = Top Secrets.
User avatar
Toppsy Kretts
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:17 pm

Re: Abortion

Post by Toppsy Kretts »

Lacewing wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:05 am
You're an idiot.
and you my friend are immature
User avatar
Toppsy Kretts
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:17 pm

Re: Abortion

Post by Toppsy Kretts »

Harbal wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:20 pm

What a fascinating sentence. It could almost have been written by someone with a basic grasp of how language works. :|
that made absolutely no sense sir
User avatar
Harbal
Posts: 9452
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Abortion

Post by Harbal »

Toppsy Kretts wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 5:20 pm
Harbal wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:20 pm

What a fascinating sentence. It could almost have been written by someone with a basic grasp of how language works. :|
that made absolutely no sense sir
I guess that makes us even, then.
User avatar
Toppsy Kretts
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:17 pm

Re: Abortion

Post by Toppsy Kretts »

Iwannaplato wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:40 pm
and/or troll.
Topsy Kretts [/] is almost the same spelling and is the author of a book in a film, The Number 23, with a person driven crazy, played by Jim Carrey, who gets an obsession with that number by reading the book.

I think that's a bit of an odd inspiration for a fundie Abrahamist. Not impossible, but it seems unlikely. And it's nice symbolism for someone who is driving someone else crazy, that is a troll.

Toppsy Kretts = Top Secrets.


Thats cool enough for you to have seen that movie and you obviously watched it all the way through explaining the sort of "jest" of the movie, and the name i chose was more of a joke because my face means nothing so a name like mine is simply words from a beautiful movie. And you wrong im afraid about the part where he went crazy. His character fount a number that is relative to the life he was living. the reason he fount the book was from a past life he wrote in retrospect of seeing the number scribbled on a table before his father killed himself. then later he fount his past wife cheating on him, he went to kill himself jumping from a building and survived thus the loss of memory and then he fount his future wife leaving the hospital. The movie itself is basically surrounded and based on trauma which you head over heels liberals have been complaining about for over the past 10 years, you should relate to the movie most of all.

but nevertheless i guess i shouldn't expect some idealistic liberal feminazi to understand true philosophy.

When philosophy was first developed i Greece, Thales the founder believed in one fundamental Gpd that expressed himself through other Gods,
Plato's never specifically stated "God" though always says "the one" as in a...God, of course.
Socrates of course never clearly states anything with "God" but does exert the probable outlook upon life that a "God" does very well exist.

So for all of your sake's and how completely unethical you think and consider to be so narrow minded my i suggest a closer outlook into what is mostly considered true and most likely hold more bearing on earth. one who believes in a "God" wouldn't murder a child, because of course that's what abortion is right??? And one who doesn't believe in a "God" would most likely would not give a second thought on how to express themselves to someone who feels just as strongly about there argument as do yours, Meaning that if i knew i was right, and believed whole-heartedly that nothing other than my beliefs is true then why would waste my time trying to explain to someone who obviously doesn't even care about what i have to say.....UNLESS---what i feel about what i am saying is almost not completely true, somehow lacking in truth in someway, maybe not ethical as a human to accept at all for that matter and maybe...just MAYBE....i feel slightly that i am wrong.

Ladies and Gentlemen, i rest my case upon your silly delusions and childish outlook upon life. you play with life-life will play back. the liberals will have there day of knowledge, and rise from the playground u squabble in. and on that day a Man or Woman you will become. and i will be there waiting for you.
Post Reply