Abortion

Abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theory and other such hot topics.

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promethean75
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Re: Abortion

Post by promethean75 »

"And to what would you attribute this trend?"

I dunno, that's why I'm axin y'all. Theory off the top of my head tho: trumpism and the philosophy of 'grab em by the pussy' inspired and encouraged young adults from lower class demographics to be more sexually inhibited and aggressive. A lot more irresponsible sex was happening when the orange man was in office.
Walker
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Re: Abortion

Post by Walker »

Sculptor wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 5:33 pm
Walker wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 3:11 pm Archbishop Cordileone bars Nancy Pelosi from Communion until she ends abortion support
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... e=hs_email

Comment:
- Apparently, one cannot be an abortion advocate, and also be a Catholic. Who knew? (everyone)
But you can be a paedophile and get promoted to another parish when caught. And you can cover up widespread paedophilia for decades too and still be Catholic.
Well, maybe you could be ...
Walker
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Re: Abortion

Post by Walker »

To continue the e-prime indulgence:

In fairness to the state of perplexity and to lend an understanding ear to the state of outrage, the Catholic Church has a long tradition of implicitly institutionalizing the abuse of individuals.

Quite simply, The Church has always used the flock to perpetuate The Church, as societal conditions dictate. Church first, individual second. Just look at those folks subjected to institutional torture. Gone and forgotten.

Abortion does not fill pews with warm, tithing bodies.

And yet, the Catholic Church persists to exist, and continues to exist, after all the individual notions of why it should not exist, get buried and forgotten.

Why? Do some philosophizing and answer the question, if you must.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Abortion

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

I've come to realize the agenda behind making abortion illegal.

It's a known fact that in the USA it's usually poorer, ignorant people that sign up for the military.

'They' know that unwanted children usually end up in poorer, under-educated, dysfunctional families, or in foster homes, often under the same circumstances, so say their statistics. Statistics have also shown that births are at an all time low in the US.

These animals that only know "the bravery of being out of range" are against abortion so as to use these ignorant unwanted children as cannon fodder for their upcoming greedy wars. I mean there's no way they'll fight their own unjust wars, they need to hide behind the dead bodies of the innocent unsuspecting, so called, lower class people. An excellent ploy, while they stand behind their smokescreen, so as to not get cut by their double edged sword. Though they believe they're clever, if any good people look closely enough, they can clearly see the wolves in sheep's clothing of "save the babies." At least some of us know what they're saving them for, their wars.

I don't really believe that's actually saving them, of course I could be wrong. What do you think?

We're talking statistics and demographics here. Where the internet and especially social media platforms help them refine their plans, their statistics and demographics. I mean many people on social media believe in all kinds of crap, 'chemtrails,' 'a flat earth,' 'we didn't land on the moon,' etc, etc, etc. Who better to aim commercials at with "be all you can be, in the army," etc, etc, etc. I wonder if they're using subliminal messaging yet, or have they always done so?

The greater percentage of Americans believe that abortions should be legal, conditions apply.
The baby is first and foremost the mothers child.
To be free is to have the final say as to the disposition of ones own body, ask yourself how you'd feel.
To tell people what they can or can't do with themselves, is a sign of a dictatorship.
To not allow women the freedom of choice makes them slaves to a baby making machine.
Babies suck the life out of their mothers literally.
Many mothers have died in the birthing bed.

Which doesn't mean we shouldn't council them on the pros and cons of both their possible choices.

ANTI-ABORTION/PRO-CHOICE the only logical reasoning.
Walker
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Re: Abortion

Post by Walker »

SOB wrote: I don't really believe that's actually saving them, of course I could be wrong. What do you think?
It's been explored in other ways.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7wj-iMfk1o

No oil, no modern fertilizers, no more feeding the world. Among all those dystopian over-population predictions, folks still gotta eat every day. This is why they call it, The Green movement.
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iambiguous
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Re: Abortion

Post by iambiguous »

phyllo wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:01 pm The worldwide trends and surveys reveal what people actually want.
And that's where I come in. Shifting the focus from what people want to exploring why they come to want what they do and not something else given the arguments I make with respect to dasein as an existential construction by and large. A "sense of self" rooted out in a particular world understood in a particular manner.
phyllo wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:01 pmIt's not necessarily demonstrable that everyone ought to want the same thing.
Given the staggering diversity that encompasses individual lives around the globe...over the entire course of human history...how would one even go about demonstrating something like that?

And not just in regard to abortion of course.

On the other hand, there have been philosophers down through the ages who insisted that we can in fact come to subscribe to, to champion, to embody the "wisest" behaviors. The deontologists, for example. Or those who anchored Good and Evil in one or another God or political ideology.
phyllo wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:01 pmIt's even possible that not everyone ought to want the same thing. Diversity is useful for survival.
True. But diversity means conflict. Survival by all means. But on whose terms?

And, this being a philosophy venue, are there tools at the disposal of philosophers to resolve the conflicts given the optimal terms?
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phyllo
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Re: Abortion

Post by phyllo »

And that's where I come in. Shifting the focus from what people want to exploring why they come to want what they do and not something else given the arguments I make with respect to dasein as an existential construction by and large. A "sense of self" rooted out in a particular world understood in a particular manner.
And from your research, what proportion of people believe in a static unchanging self? IOW, a self which is not a "construction by and large".
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Sculptor
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Re: Abortion

Post by Sculptor »

SpheresOfBalance wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 12:42 am I've come to realize the agenda behind making abortion illegal.

It's a known fact that in the USA it's usually poorer, ignorant people that sign up for the military.

'They' know that unwanted children usually end up in poorer, under-educated, dysfunctional families, or in foster homes, often under the same circumstances, so say their statistics. Statistics have also shown that births are at an all time low in the US.

These animals that only know "the bravery of being out of range" are against abortion so as to use these ignorant unwanted children as cannon fodder for their upcoming greedy wars. I mean there's no way they'll fight their own unjust wars, they need to hide behind the dead bodies of the innocent unsuspecting, so called, lower class people. An excellent ploy, while they stand behind their smokescreen, so as to not get cut by their double edged sword. Though they believe they're clever, if any good people look closely enough, they can clearly see the wolves in sheep's clothing of "save the babies." At least some of us know what they're saving them for, their wars.


I don't really believe that's actually saving them, of course I could be wrong. What do you think?
You have a sick mind..
popeye1945
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Re: Abortion

Post by popeye1945 »

It is not unusual for the states to use their young for cannon fodder in unjust wars in which they are participating as we speak. One is not supposed to think for oneself in the military handy when the population doesn't think for itself in the first place. A perpetual good morning Vietnam!!! It would be funny if it weren't so tragic, aborting all these young people to expand the economic empire and establish parasitic relationships with countries that cannot defend against it.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Abortion

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Abortion is a very contentious issue and is subjective.
However one need to note anti-abortion is supported by the majority of people at present, perhaps >70% comprising Christians, Muslims and other anti-abortion religions.
With such majority support there is likely to be a moral essence [moral fact] to it.

I believe anti-abortion has a moral base driven from a moral potential [moral fact] driven by evolutionary forces [current].
Morality is about universal standards.
To make abortion permissible as a universal would mean the eventual extinction of the human race.
Thus universally 'abortion is not permissible' period, but this is only a standard which need not be enforceable on any individuals but merely to act as a guide for improvements in the future.
In the meantime, abortion should be legalized as being pragmatic to optimize against current psychological states, medical and social conditions.

At present, the majority of humans are beasts and thus driven by beastly sexual lusts that end up with unplanned births.
In the future, humanity could come up with pleasures 1000 times more gratifying than sex that sexual lust is relegated as a low priority. Then human will only have sex with its relative low level of pleasure only to satisfy their inherent unavoidable maternal or paternal instincts.

From the above, there are features of reality of moral facts from the moral potential that are represented by physical neurons and the specific neural networks.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Abortion

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:41 am From the above, there are features of reality of moral facts from the moral potential that are represented by physical neurons and the specific neural networks.
Another classic contender in the category of: least meaningful sentence ever constructed.
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iambiguous
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Re: Abortion

Post by iambiguous »

It's official:

"Supreme Court Overturns Roe v. Wade in Landmark Decision; States Move to Ban Abortion"

Now, the personal opinion of this particular moral nihilist [me] is that in a No God world, those on both sides of the abortion debate are able to make reasonable arguments for and against abortion: https://abortion.procon.org/

And, thus, what made Roe v. Wade the "best of all possible worlds" is that through "democracy and the rule of law" those on both sides of the issue here in America got something, but neither side got it all.

Now, in some states, all abortions may well be deemed illegal. And since any number of men and women base their view of the law on their moral convictions, why not the day when the Supremes rule that all abortions in all fifty states must be deemed premeditated murder?

No, they won't bring their Catholic God into the "legal argument", of course, but who is kidding whom that He is not in there? And 5 of the 9 current Justices are Catholics. And the sixth Neil Gorsuch was raised as a Catholic.
Skepdick
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Re: Abortion

Post by Skepdick »

iambiguous wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:49 pm It's official:

"Supreme Court Overturns Roe v. Wade in Landmark Decision; States Move to Ban Abortion"

Now, the personal opinion of this particular moral nihilist [me] is that in a No God world, those on both sides of the abortion debate are able to make reasonable arguments for and against abortion: https://abortion.procon.org/

And, thus, what made Roe v. Wade the "best of all possible worlds" is that through "democracy and the rule of law" those on both sides of the issue here in America got something, but neither side got it all.

Now, in some states, all abortions may well be deemed illegal. And since any number of men and women base their view of the law on their moral convictions, why not the day when the Supremes rule that all abortions in all fifty states must be deemed premeditated murder?

No, they won't bring their Catholic God into the "legal argument", of course, but who is kidding whom that He is not in there? And 5 of the 9 current Justices are Catholics. And the sixth Neil Gorsuch was raised as a Catholic.
Onwards and upwards I say!

Now that life is safe from the evil abortionists, lets protect the seed of life from the evil masturbators!

Christian Conservatives (being such ardent advocates for Biblical scripture) should embrace the new world where spilling the seed is a sin punishable by law.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Abortion

Post by Immanuel Can »

iambiguous wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:49 pm 5 of the 9 current Justices are Catholics. And the sixth Neil Gorsuch was raised as a Catholic.
I'm not sure how relevant one can make that. Joe Biden has been supposedly a Catholic, as has been Nasty Pelosi...and look at where they landed.

More importantly, though, I don't see any "Catholic" reasoning being included in the ruling. As I understand it, it was the lack of constitutional standing that was the problem for R v. W., and all the given reasons were of that sort, not "because a baby is a human being," and far less "because the Catholics say so."
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iambiguous
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Re: Abortion

Post by iambiguous »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:52 pm
iambiguous wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:49 pm 5 of the 9 current Justices are Catholics. And the sixth Neil Gorsuch was raised as a Catholic.
I'm not sure how relevant one can make that. Joe Biden has been supposedly a Catholic, as has been Nasty Pelosi...and look at where they landed.
Ah, the part I root in the subjective, existential parameters of dasein! And in a No God world. And the part you root in others wholly agreeing with your own "logical" assessment of where the Christian God Himself comes down on abortion. The part where those who don't share your own dogmatic, authoritarian moral convictions about the morality of abortion are, what, likely to be damned to Hell for all of eternity?
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:52 pmMore importantly, though, I don't see any "Catholic" reasoning being included in the ruling. As I understand it, it was the lack of constitutional standing that was the problem for R v. W., and all the given reasons were of that sort, not "because a baby is a human being," and far less "because the Catholics say so."
Right. It's all about the Constitution and the law. And even though back in 1973 by a vote of 7 to 2 this same Supreme Court referring back to the same Constitution made Roe v. Wade the law of the land, this new Supreme Court, in being much closer to your own Christian dogma, is necessarily much closer to pinning down objectively when in fact mere mortals become human beings.

And now on to the part where in state after state virtually all abortions will be deemed to be, what, premeditated first degree murder? And therefore those who either perform one or obtain one will be arrested and charged with premeditated first degree murder? And, if convicted, what, sentenced to death?

And, again, just out of curiosity, for those who support this ruling, if a woman you know and love either performs or obtains an abortion in a jurisdiction where they are made illegal, do you turn her into the law?

Is she in fact a premeditated murderer who is, if convicted of this crime, morally justified in being executed by the state?
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