Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:58 pm
You don't like "snippets," you say -- then you write messages the length of essays, which would require me to respond in an essay of double length, if I didn't cut to the relevant.
So you really have two options: be short,and maybe use more, shorter messages to get your points across (I recommend one major point per post, for readability's sake for others) or get used to snippets. There's no alternative on a forum like this. It's not fair to people to get too lengthy. Understandably, nobody wants to read messages here that are too lengthy and have no concise point.
Look, I've always surmised that my take on snippets here is rooted subjectively, existentially in dasein. Not unlike my take on God. So, by all means, we can agree to disagree on what it entails.
After all, you're the objectivist here. You're the one who connects the ontological and teleological dots between abortion, the Christian God and Judgment Day. You're the one who insists that in regard to abortion our very souls are at stake.
Right?
iambiguous wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:26 am
But in order to believe in a God, the God, my God, I need others to take Him here:
1] a demonstrable proof of the existence of your God or religious/spiritual path
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:58 pmYou have, at the minimum, the very "evidence" you demanded -- that you know as certainly as you "know" the Pope is in Rome, that you know God exists.
You say that the way you "know" that the Pope is in Rome is by the testimony of others -- for you say you have not been there yourself.
Yet others also declare their knowledge of God, and tell you that He exists. I would be one of those, but so would all the writers of the Bible, and millions of other Christians and Jews.
So the standard you said you wanted has been fully met. What do you want now?
Note to others:
Be honest. How can someone who equates demonstrating the existence of the Christian God in Heaven as he does above with demonstrating the existence of the Pope in the Vatican
not be afflicted with one or another mental "condition"?
How is his "standard" of evidence here
not ridiculous?
The only way most of us might argue that there is not sufficient evidence that the Pope, really, really, really does reside in the Vatican is to suggest something akin to solipsism or sim worlds or dream worlds or something out of the Matrix.
2] addressing the fact that down through the ages hundreds of Gods and religious/spiritual paths to immortality and salvation were/are championed...but only one of which [if any] can be the true path. So why yours?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:58 pm Well, it's not "mine," in the sense that I didn't invent it; it's only "mine" in the sense that among all these, I chose it.
I invariably find that people who speak of "hundreds of religious paths" and such have investigated either very few or none of them. So it seems odd that they want to assert this as a problem. I don't think it's nearly the problem you imagine it to be.
Come on, IC, like they can't argue exactly the same thing about you and your God.
As for it being a problem, if you believe that God provides us with objective morality on this side of the grave and immortality and salvation on the other side, and you note that down through the ages there have been countless religious denominations
all claiming to provide us with the One True Path
to them...
That isn't a problem for us mere mortals?
Only unlike most of them it's not a Kierkegaardian leap of faith to God, it's "evidence" that in fact He does exist. The kind of evidence that no reasonable man or woman can possibly deny.
This kind of "evidence":
https://youtu.be/hHXXacBAm2A
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... SjDNeMaRoX
Indeed, after watching these videos, I challenge anyone here to still doubt that the Christian God resides in Heaven.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:58 pm Compare them, and you'll find out which path is really rational, moral and truthful. I suggest you start by considering carefully the life of Jesus Christ, and compare him to any other religious figure you choose. You will know when you do that. And it won't take you long.
Please. How is this not the sort of "argument" one would expect to encounter in church or around the dinner table at home or on a Christian website or in a social media venue.
But at the Philosophy Now magazine forum?!!
3] addressing the profoundly problematic role that dasein plays in any particular individual's belief in Gods and religious/spiritual faiths
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:58 pm Well, that is a problem: "dasein," for you, has no meaning. You say you're not using Heidegger's version, or anybody else's -- it's your own, you say. So nobody but you knowns what you mean by "dasein." When I asked, you, yourself were unable to tell me what your definition of it is.
Absent that, nobody can even know what it is you're asking...
All I can do is to note the points I raise about dasein in the OPs here:
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=176529
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=194382
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 5&t=185296
To note how, in regard to our moral and political and spiritual value judgments, I believe we go about acquiring a sense of identity. And to ask others to note how and why this is not applicable to them.
In regard to such controversial issues as abortion.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:58 pm If I understood your question, there's a very good chance I could respond to it. But it's not at all clear to me what your concealed meaning is.
Here of course I suggest that 1] if we do in fact live in a world that is not wholly determined by brains wholly in sync with the laws of matter and 2] if you are not afflicted with a "condition" making your posts here "beyond your control", then you reject my meaning for the same reason all of the other objectivists do: in order to sustain the comfort and the consolation you crave in convincing yourself that you really are on the One True Path.
And that all of the others here --
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions -- who insist it is another path instead are just plain wrong. Trust me: to a path they will all be insisting that you are.
4] the questions that revolve around theodicy and your own particular God or religious/spiritual path
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:58 pm You'll have to tell me which "questions" you mean. "Revolve around" doesn't tell me much.
Well, let's go back to this question:
How would an omniscient and omnipotent Christian God said to be loving, just and merciful explain this:
"...the endless procession of earthquakes and volcanic eruptions and tornadoes and hurricanes and great floods and great droughts and great fires and deadly viral and bacterial plagues and miscarriages and hundreds and hundreds of medical and mental afflictions and extinction events...making life on Earth a living hell for countless millions of men, women and children down through the ages."
You respond:
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:58 pm Nobody says God "creates" these things. Well, animists do, maybe...they have "gods" that "create" all sorts of phenomena, from crops growing to lightning bolts. But no Christian thinks that's what these things mean.
You need to update your theology.
Prompting me to note...
Let's go to the Bible:
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
The heavens that from time to time send asteroids and comets our way bringing about "extinction events". And the Earth which was hard-wired by God to bring about that "endless procession" above.
And who was it other than God that created human biology with its countless terrible medical afflictions that make life a living hell [eventually] for all of us.
Prompting you to note...
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:58 pm Christian theology says we live in a broken, disrupted world, wherein mankind has rejected God. Natural disasters are not God getting angry, nor God punishing people, nor any such simplistic idea as that. It's a natural product of our disjuncture from the Source of life, health and goodness, which we human beings have ourselves caused.
Prompting me to note...
Ah, a necessary adjunct of Original Sin. All the rest of us still being punished for something we didn't even do ourselves. Use
that to explain away these terrible conditions:
https://www.onhealth.com/content/1/chil ... _sick_kids
https://sph.umich.edu/pursuit/2020posts ... llosa.html
https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/chi ... conditions
Finally...
...down to this:
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:38 am
That's the God we have.
But you don't seem to want that, after all. Because He's provided all that already, and you don't want what he is offering.
From my frame of mind, he hasn't a clue as to how to respond substantively to the points I raise.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:58 pmGod doesn't?
Or I don't?
If it's God, that's an amusing thought. If it's me, I've just responded above. So either way, it seems you spoke too soon.
Well, if there is a Christian God and a Judgment Day, then, when the time comes, I'll ask Him.
As for you, all I'm noting is that given my own subjective reaction to your posts here [and that's all it is, my own personal opinion rooted existentially in dasein] your points strike me as so clearly inadequate for a philosophy forum, that a 'condition" is one possible explanation.