Abortion

Abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theory and other such hot topics.

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bahman
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Re: Abortion

Post by bahman »

promethean75 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 9:38 pm "Also, suppose medical science reaches the point where it can identify all these ghastly types in the womb. Would you go along with aborting them?"

That is precisely why Henry's point that the freedom to posses weapons, is so important. If the fetus had a bazooka, it could defend itself from the abortionist.
Yeah!
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henry quirk
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Re: Abortion

Post by henry quirk »

sculptor,
You might as well hand yourself in to the police for the last time you wanked into you sock.
When I start squirtin' out zygotes, I might just do that.
mind your own business.
henry quirk wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:50 am What exactly have I done to assert a right to tell folks what they can and can't do beyond my talkin' about natural rights? And what power have I exercised to get folks to recognize natural rights beyond debate and conversation?

As I say: I'm no judge or legislator. I have no granted or privileged say over any one. All I can do is exercise the power I have over myself.

The absent lace climbed up my butt on this very subject many, many moons ago. Like you, she thought becuz I opposed violations of life, liberty, and property, that I was out & about everyday crusadin'. I don't. I, very quietly, live my life exactly as I want to and I leave others to do the same.

So, yeah, I think abortion is killing a person, and I think most abortions are flat out murder, but I have no time, no resources, and, most importantly, no inclination to police the world, and not you or anyone else here can point to any post of mine that sez otherwise.
if you are somehow considering the interests of the foetus you are asserting a double standard.
I consider the interests of both woman and child. Each belong to themselves, equally, and they do so in a unique circumstance, a singular human relationship.

Consider these outlandish scenarios...

1 Your best friend is dyin' and you agree to be surgically bound to him for 9 months as part of a life-savin' treatment (your organs will supplement his). At the end of 9 months, your friend will be cured of what was killin' him and you'll be temporarily drained but, overall, no worse for wear. Midway thru, you begin to have second thoughts.

2 Someone is dyin' and you agree, for a small but satisfyin' fee, to be surgically bound to him for 9 months as part of a life-savin' treatment (your organs will supplement his). At the end of 9 months, the person will be cured of what was killin' him and you'll be temporarily drained but, overall, no worse for wear. Midway thru, you begin to have second thoughts.

3 You awake to find you've been surgically bound to a stranger, without your permission. A doctor explains this stranger's life is utterly dependent on yours for 9 months. If disconnected early, the stranger will die. The stranger, by the way, is unconscious, and had no say in the surgical binding either. You are outraged at the violation of your life and body.

4 A twist on # 1: midway thru the 9 months, it's discovered, unexpectedly, your heart is overstrained. It's likely your friend will fully recover as expected, but you will die from a failure of your over-worked heart. However, if you are disconnected now you will recover but your friend, bein' severed from you, will die.

What is your proper course of action in these scenarios? Disconnect or remain connected?
The "murderess" will simply claim rape.
henry quirk wrote: Sat Apr 02, 2022 1:04 am
By the time the abortion is needed any evidence is gone.
If the woman is examined and evidence is collected at the time it generally is -- shortly after the rape -- it is preserved and certified by the attending. This certification is good for real world criminal proceedings if the rapist is caught tomorrow or two years later, and in the hypothetical world I'm touchin' on, where morality is treated as real instead of a relative fiction (note the thread title) this same certification could stand if the woman decided to abort at the first sign of pregnancy or waited till the six month.
And no "rape kit" can prove a rape. It can prove sex nothing more.
it can prove there was violent penetration. Along with other injuries, this lends weight to her claim. Sure she could lie. She can lie now (how many men have been falsely convicted, Mr. Stats?). Again, we're talkin' about morality in the thread, not forensics.
If rape is the only excuse for an abortion then the question is "PROVE IT".
It's not the only just cause for an abortion (did you read my post, or just scan it?). And, yeah, the bar is set low, way lower than if she were tryin' to get a man convicted. Again: we're talkin' about morality in the most delicate of circumstances. Unlike the courtroom a certain trust is applied here that the woman is honest, that her claim is true. But, hey, you wanna set the bar higher, make it more difficult for the raped to abort (cuz mebbe some women will game the system), fine by me.
in certain states rapes victims are now being forced to carry a bastard monster inside themselves
And they shouldn't be. It's immoral. I've offered a low bar means to correct that consistent with a moral realism.
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henry quirk
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Re: Abortion

Post by henry quirk »

bahman wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:28 pm
henry quirk wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:23 pm
No, abortion is forbidden in all circumstances.
I can't agree. it's one thing to expect a woman to accept the natural consequences of her sexual behavior, it's quite another to expect a woman to accept the consequences of violation or death.
Abortion is allowed only if the life of the mother and baby is in danger.
Ah, so you've moved from no abortin' under any circumstances to here's an exception.

What changed your mind?
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henry quirk
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Re: Abortion

Post by henry quirk »

Would you go so far as to recommend a "final solution" in dealing with them?

Also, suppose medical science reaches the point where it can identify all these ghastly types in the womb. Would you go along with aborting them?
As they tend to self-annihilate: nuthin' need be done 'cept sit back and watch the show.
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henry quirk
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Re: Abortion

Post by henry quirk »

If the fetus had a bazooka, it could defend itself from the abortionist.
From your fingertips to God's in-box.
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iambiguous
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Re: Abortion

Post by iambiguous »

Okay, a woman has an abortion. How specifically would you the differentiate the reactions of the morons, the asswipes, the pinheads, the degenerates, the idiots, the deficients, the nutjobs, the loons, the liars and those who are just wrong-headed?

Which, in your view, are the dumbest and the most diseased?

Would you go so far as to recommend a "final solution" in dealing with them? What if you had a daughter or a sister and she married one?

Also, suppose medical science reaches the point where it can identify all these ghastly types in the womb. Would you go along with aborting them?
Mr. Snippet wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 1:45 amAs they tend to self-annihilate: nuthin' need be done 'cept sit back and watch the show.
Why take a chance on them "tending" to do anything? Wouldn't aborting them be the answer if medical science can spot them in the womb. And for those who make it out into the world with the rest of us...no final solution? What if it's discovered that the state is seeking to replace those like you with those like them?
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henry quirk
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Re: Abortion

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Wouldn't aborting them be the answer if medical science can spot them in the womb.
Well, I can't get behind that, but if you wanna self-abort today you have my full support.
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Sculptor
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Re: Abortion

Post by Sculptor »

Henry is as usual lacking in thought.

His proposal is incoherent and impractical having nothing to do with concern for "the foetus"

He seems more concerned with punishing women for having sex.
He graciously allows women to abort if they were raped. How kind of him!!
But he has not done the most basic consideration of how his scheme might work.
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henry quirk
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Re: Abortion

Post by henry quirk »

he has not done the most basic consideration of how his scheme might work.
Yeah, somehow everything between What exactly and sez otherwise in this...
henry quirk wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:50 am
...never registered.

Typical & tiresome.
His proposal
What proposal?

Explain my proposal.
ain't holdin' my breath on that happenin'
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iambiguous
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Re: Abortion

Post by iambiguous »

Mr. Snippet wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 1:57 pm
Wouldn't aborting them be the answer if medical science can spot them in the womb.
Well, I can't get behind that, but if you wanna self-abort today you have my full support.
I'll bet I do.

Suicide by bazooka? :shock:
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henry quirk
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Re: Abortion

Post by henry quirk »

Suicide by bazooka?
Drano: it's cheaper, more readily available, and -- most importantly -- slow & painful.

👍
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iambiguous
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Re: Abortion

Post by iambiguous »

Sculptor wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 5:10 pm
He graciously allows women to abort if they were raped. How kind of him!!
Is that true, Mr. Snippet?

The unborn may exist as a result of rape. But that doesn't make it any less an innocent human being.

This is always a tricky situation for some in the pro-life movement. There are those who are adamant that a life is a life and as terrible as the pregnancy itself is for the woman who is raped, it is still her moral obligation to give birth. Others accept that here exceptions can be made and abortion is reluctantly okay.

With God?

The same with pregnancies in which the woman's life may be endangered in giving birth.

Or the far more ambiguous context in which the woman's mental health may be impaired. How do we determine if this is true? What if the woman is just claiming that it is in order to have the abortion? In, say, a jurisdiction in which otherwise it would be illegal.

At least the faithful here can fall back on God. He knows all. And the bottom line is always Judgment Day.

Although with Mr. Snippet's God...you tell me.
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henry quirk
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Re: Abortion

Post by henry quirk »

Is that true, Mr. Snippet?
Go read the post: find out for yourself.
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iambiguous
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Re: Abortion

Post by iambiguous »

Mr. Snippet wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 6:43 pm
Suicide by bazooka?
Drano: it's cheaper, more readily available, and -- most importantly -- slow & painful.

👍
Needless to say a Christian would never be this...vicious. At least on this side of the grave. Instead, on the other side of it, their God will send me to Hell to burn for all of eternity.

Ah, the religious minds!
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iambiguous
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Re: Abortion

Post by iambiguous »

Mr. Snippet wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 6:48 pm
Is that true, Mr. Snippet?
Go read the post: find out for yourself.
Why don't you just snip out the appropriate part for us. 8)
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