Abortion

Abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theory and other such hot topics.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Abortion

Post by Immanuel Can »

iambiguous wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 8:58 pm Now, what omnipotent God would allow that?
I answered that question several messages ago. I don't want to repeat here.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Abortion

Post by Immanuel Can »

Sculptor wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 9:13 pm ...objectivity in morality ...
What is your objective moral?
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iambiguous
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Re: Abortion

Post by iambiguous »

iambiguous wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:01 pm "An estimated 23 million miscarriages occur every year worldwide, translating to 44 pregnancy losses each minute." the lancet

Now, what omnipotent God would allow that?

Not to mention all of the millions upon millions of deaths caused by medical afflictions this God brought into existence for those who make it out of the womb.

And then all those killed in one or another "act of God" natural disaster.

Indeed, if the Christian God really is loving, just and merciful, can you imagine our fate if He wasn't?!

Sure, if He is deranged that would certainly explain a lot. But what if He isn't. What if, instead, He is just a sadistic monster?

If He does exist, that will be the first question I ask Him on Judgment Day: Why?
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 9:22 pm
I answered that question several messages ago. I don't want to repeat here.
Come on, IC, you haven't even responded to the points I raised in this post...

iambiguous wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:01 pm
iambiguous wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:01 pm But my question was once the Supremes overturn Roe, can a Republican Congress and Presidency down the road -- a re-elected Trump? -- pass legislation that does make all [or almost all] abortions illegal? The states be damned?

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 9:54 pm No. This decision means that they no longer have any jurisdiction to do so. That will not happen.


Note to others:

Is this the case?

Am I misunderstanding this point from the NYT:

"The Supreme Court draft opinion signals a new era for the 50-year effort to end the constitutional right to abortion. Next goals include a national ban and, in some cases, classifying abortion as homicide."

Or this headline from Forbes:

"Republicans Will Try To Ban Abortion Nationwide If Supreme Court Overturns Roe V. Wade, Report Reveals"

That, in other words, a Republican Congress and a Republican President cannot pass into law and then enforce national legislation that bans all [or almost all] abortions?

That it's the states and only the states that count? And, if, post Roe, a blue state actually expands abortion rights and a case here makes it all the way to the Supreme Court, Alito and Thomas and the Trump justices will uphold their right to do so? This really is all about the law and the Constitution and not about moral and political prejudices rooted in dasein?

As opposed to the Christian God?

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 9:54 pm Something as vile as abortion should be not just a federal concern, but a human concern. It actually transcends all human courts -- so that no court, no matter how self-importantly "Supreme" actually can make abortion moral.


And, of course, this is all true for you "in your head" because it is wholly in sync with what is also true for you "in your head": the existence of the Christian God.

Which, I suspect, is why you avoided altogether responding to this point I raised above:

And, of course, as with the fiercely Christian majority now accounting for the majority of the Court here and now [hypocrites or not], with abortion they are wholly in sync with your own Christian dogma.

Right?

But, okay, you tell me where, in regard to abortion, you yourself draw the line here between the [Christian] Bible and the Constitution.

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 9:54 pmThat's the difference between law and morality. The law only says what arrangements humans will accept (constitutionally, practically). Morality is bigger: it judges all laws. And any law promoting abortion will always be immoral, no matter how many humans decide to say otherwise, or where they adjudicate that from.


This sounds like something a theocrat might argue. Is that what you would like to see come about...a Christian theocracy in which the law of the land would be replaced by your own "private and personal" assessment of the Christian God's Commandments.

And just to be clear, if a women you loved had an abortion you would be morally obligated to turn her in, right? She would be renounced by you as a murderer...and, if convicted, sent to prison, to death row?

And would she also burn in Hell for all of eternity given your own understanding of Judgment Day?

Really, let's get down to the nitty gritty here. What would unfold in a community where you were in power and someone had an abortion. For example, what passages from the Bible would you quote in passing your own judgment?


...yet.
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Sculptor
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Re: Abortion

Post by Sculptor »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 9:23 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 9:13 pm ...objectivity in morality ...
What is your objective moral?
Get a life!
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Abortion

Post by Immanuel Can »

iambiguous wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 10:18 pm Come on, IC, you haven't even responded to the points I raised in this post...
I covered them in my earlier remarks. Feel free to go back and read them.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Abortion

Post by Immanuel Can »

Sculptor wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 10:34 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 9:23 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 9:13 pm ...objectivity in morality ...
What is your objective moral?
Get a life!
So...you've got nothing.

Yep, that's what I expected.

Have a nice day.
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iambiguous
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Re: Abortion

Post by iambiguous »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 1:43 am
iambiguous wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 10:18 pm Come on, IC, you haven't even responded to the points I raised in this post...
I covered them in my earlier remarks. Feel free to go back and read them.
Again, if you are not embarrassed in allowing yourself to be reduced down posts of this sort in a philosophy forum, I am not embarrassed to suggest that you ought to be.

You are to Christianity here as Henry Quirk is to Deism.

And wouldn't it be fascinating if you and he were to commence an exchange regarding God and religion. For one thing, you could introduce him to Jesus Christ and Judgment Day. And he could sell you a bazooka.

8)
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Abortion

Post by Immanuel Can »

iambiguous wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 2:55 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 1:43 am
iambiguous wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 10:18 pm Come on, IC, you haven't even responded to the points I raised in this post...
I covered them in my earlier remarks. Feel free to go back and read them.
Again,
Go and read.

Or don't. At this point, what does it matter?
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Dontaskme
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Re: Abortion

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:29 am what does it matter?

No living thing ever came with a manual in order to know how to function - the living organism is totally automatic, self-organising - not manually driven. It's a self-driving machine to save you putting your grubby paws on the wheel.
The mental conceptual sphere is the only place you live.

...So indeed, what does it matter. You don't...Oh dear..

Manual or information is always of past tense, it's dead as a dodo, just like your beloved Father. When are you going to stop shagging dead things IC ?
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Sculptor
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Re: Abortion

Post by Sculptor »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 9:23 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 9:13 pm ...objectivity in morality ...
What is your objective moral?
You might want to check your English here.
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henry quirk
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Re: Abortion

Post by henry quirk »

wouldn't it be fascinating if you and he were to commence an exchange regarding God and religion.
Been there, done that: privately.
he could sell you a bazooka.
I'd make a damn good arms dealer.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Abortion

Post by Immanuel Can »

Sculptor wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 11:07 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 9:23 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 9:13 pm ...objectivity in morality ...
What is your objective moral?
You might want to check your English here.
The English is just fine: it reads, "What is your moral-that-is-objective," to paraphrase.

You should look up what an "adjective" is. That will help you.
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Sculptor
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Re: Abortion

Post by Sculptor »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 1:18 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 11:07 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 9:23 pm
What is your objective moral?
You might want to check your English here.
The English is just fine: it reads, "What is your moral-that-is-objective," to paraphrase.

You should look up what an "adjective" is. That will help you.
https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Abortion

Post by Immanuel Can »

Sculptor wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 7:07 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 1:18 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 11:07 am

You might want to check your English here.
The English is just fine: it reads, "What is your moral-that-is-objective," to paraphrase.

You should look up what an "adjective" is. That will help you.
https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org
So now you know.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Abortion

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 7:39 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 7:07 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 1:18 pm
The English is just fine: it reads, "What is your moral-that-is-objective," to paraphrase.

You should look up what an "adjective" is. That will help you.
https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org
So now you know.
Why wouldn’t he know.

He was the original author of his own knowledge.

🤓
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