Abortion

Abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theory and other such hot topics.

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iambiguous
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Re: Abortion

Post by iambiguous »

Yo IC! You're up!!


iambiguous wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:01 pm
iambiguous wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:01 pm But my question was once the Supremes overturn Roe, can a Republican Congress and Presidency down the road -- a re-elected Trump? -- pass legislation that does make all [or almost all] abortions illegal? The states be damned?

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 9:54 pm No. This decision means that they no longer have any jurisdiction to do so. That will not happen.


Note to others:

Is this the case?

Am I misunderstanding this point from the NYT:

"The Supreme Court draft opinion signals a new era for the 50-year effort to end the constitutional right to abortion. Next goals include a national ban and, in some cases, classifying abortion as homicide."

Or this headline from Forbes:

"Republicans Will Try To Ban Abortion Nationwide If Supreme Court Overturns Roe V. Wade, Report Reveals"

That, in other words, a Republican Congress and a Republican President cannot pass into law and then enforce national legislation that bans all [or almost all] abortions?

That it's the states and only the states that count? And, if, post Roe, a blue state actually expands abortion rights and a case here makes it all the way to the Supreme Court, Alito and Thomas and the Trump justices will uphold their right to do so? This really is all about the law and the Constitution and not about moral and political prejudices rooted in dasein?

As opposed to the Christian God?

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 9:54 pm Something as vile as abortion should be not just a federal concern, but a human concern. It actually transcends all human courts -- so that no court, no matter how self-importantly "Supreme" actually can make abortion moral.


And, of course, this is all true for you "in your head" because it is wholly in sync with what is also true for you "in your head": the existence of the Christian God.

Which, I suspect, is why you avoided altogether responding to this point I raised above:

And, of course, as with the fiercely Christian majority now accounting for the majority of the Court here and now [hypocrites or not], with abortion they are wholly in sync with your own Christian dogma.

Right?

But, okay, you tell me where, in regard to abortion, you yourself draw the line here between the [Christian] Bible and the Constitution.

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 9:54 pmThat's the difference between law and morality. The law only says what arrangements humans will accept (constitutionally, practically). Morality is bigger: it judges all laws. And any law promoting abortion will always be immoral, no matter how many humans decide to say otherwise, or where they adjudicate that from.


This sounds like something a theocrat might argue. Is that what you would like to see come about...a Christian theocracy in which the law of the land would be replaced by your own "private and personal" assessment of the Christian God's Commandments.

And just to be clear, if a women you loved had an abortion you would be morally obligated to turn her in, right? She would be renounced by you as a murderer...and, if convicted, sent to prison, to death row?

And would she also burn in Hell for all of eternity given your own understanding of Judgment Day?

Really, let's get down to the nitty gritty here. What would unfold in a community where you were in power and someone had an abortion. For example, what passages from the Bible would you quote in passing your own judgment?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Abortion

Post by Immanuel Can »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 9:05 pm There is no such thing as a 9 month 'abortion', 'partial' or otherwise.
Yes, there is. https://www.cga.ct.gov/PS98/rpt%5Colr%5 ... R-0831.htm
It's a political term that anti-choicers came up with.
Nope. That's a government site you've got there. Unless you want to argue that they're "anti-choicers," you're just wrong...again.
And you never answered why you brought it up. What difference would it make to you even it it was 'a thing'.
It makes the same difference whenever anybody is murdered.
What about all the horrible consequences of forcing women to continue with unwanted pregnancies?
Their "choices" are made. 99% of abortions in the US, statistically, are elective. Responsible contraception or adoption would make abortions unnecessary.

And "sick"? "Sick" is creating a child wilfully, and then killing her because you don't want to love and care for her personally, and you are too selfish to allow anybody else to adopt your child alive. "Sick" is staring your own children in the face, and knowing you murdered one of them. Yep, that's "sick."
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Abortion

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 10:10 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 9:05 pm There is no such thing as a 9 month 'abortion', 'partial' or otherwise.
Yes, there is. https://www.cga.ct.gov/PS98/rpt%5Colr%5 ... R-0831.htm
It's a political term that anti-choicers came up with.
Nope. That's a government site you've got there. Unless you want to argue that they're "anti-choicers," you're just wrong...again.
And you never answered why you brought it up. What difference would it make to you even it it was 'a thing'.
It makes the same difference whenever anybody is murdered.
What about all the horrible consequences of forcing women to continue with unwanted pregnancies?
Their "choices" are made. 99% of abortions in the US, statistically, are elective. Responsible contraception or adoption would make abortions unnecessary.

And "sick"? "Sick" is creating a child wilfully, and then killing her because you don't want to love and care for her personally, and you are too selfish to allow anybody else to adopt your child alive. "Sick" is staring your own children in the face, and knowing you murdered one of them. Yep, that's "sick."
Just fuck off. I'm not interested in engaging with your phony excrement any further.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Fri May 13, 2022 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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attofishpi
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Re: Abortion

Post by attofishpi »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 10:10 pm
And "sick"? "Sick" is creating a child wilfully, and then killing her because you don't want to love and care for her personally, and you are too selfish to allow anybody else to adopt your child alive. "Sick" is staring your own children in the face, and knowing you murdered one of them. Yep, that's "sick."
Ah ye, look at yourself casting the first stone, and yet you consider yourself Christian.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Abortion

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 12:59 am
And "sick"? "Sick" is creating a child wilfully, and then killing her because you don't want to love and care for her personally, and you are too selfish to allow anybody else to adopt your child alive. "Sick" is staring your own children in the face, and knowing you murdered one of them. Yep, that's "sick."
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 12:59 amJust fuck off. I'm not interesting in engaging with your phony excrement any further.
Veg..Do you know what the irony is here?

God wanted you, he wanted to love you and care for you.

And once he had you, he then killed you, sometimes in horrible, nasty, vile, disgusting, and excrutiatingly painful ways.

Wasn't that a fun thing to do.. :lol: ...yeah, lets keep playing that sick game, it's just an absolute bag of laughs and joy. It's so positively ''SICK'' ..hey man this is ''sick'' man. :lol:

Image

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Abortion

Post by Immanuel Can »

attofishpi wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 8:08 am Ah ye, look at yourself casting the first stone, and yet you consider yourself Christian.
Well, it's funny how many people know that verse, and only that -- and also how few know that it's found only in late manuscripts, and not in the early ones. In fact, the whole "taken in adultery" incident is suspect. Check that out for yourself: any good Bible will have a footnote to that effect, you will find.

Christians are not told not to judge sin. In fact, there are twice the instructions in Scripture about things people ought to judge as there are statements about things they should not. Most people do not think about that, either.

And while it is true that no person should judge such things as the ultimate worth or standing before God of another, we are positively invited and encouraged to make ethical judgments premised on the explicit words of Scripture itself, especially about actions.

If God says something (like murder) is evil, then not only can we judge, we must judge that as evil. To fail to do so is to condone wickedness, which is itself, in Scripture, a sin.
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Sculptor
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Re: Abortion

Post by Sculptor »

Not sure why all the American religionists are in such a funk about abortion.

God is a far more effective abortionist; miscarrying far more foetuses than modern medicine. Most foetuses he aborts within the first couple of days. God aborts as many as 70% of all pregnancies without the mothers permission.

A human abortionist is so much more moral than God.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Abortion

Post by Immanuel Can »

Sculptor wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 6:30 pm Not sure why all the American religionists are in such a funk about abortion.
God gives life. Of course, therefore, He has the right to withdraw it, if He chooses. But what he is doing in each case of a child stillborn or premature, or miscarried is up to Him. He gives; He has the right to choose where and how.

You don't.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Abortion

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

RWStanding wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 7:23 am A subject that is pronounced on after people have already decided what kind of ethical society they support.
It also attracts absolutist statements such as the present report that the USA is banning abortion.
The USA may well leave it to the individual states to decide on policy, but that may simply cause women to take advantage of liberal law in an adjoining state - which obviates the whole purpose.
In any case every society or country or state must decide on its fundamental ethic, controlling legislation.
An extreme authoritarian society has no debatable ethic, and merely goes by the 'book' or by the will of a demagogue.
A 'anarchistic' society or state based on outright individual autonomy [egalitarian too] will do as many in the USA wish and let women get pregnant at a whim and get abortions at a whim [their own moral vanity].
A society or state that is in generalised terms an altruist democracy, will have an ethic that binds women. But it will be constantly discussed and amended as may be to suit current wisdom and conditions. There can be no doubt that abortion would remain permissible and essential to save life, where life is in danger. Beyond that action being based on the foetus having increasing rights to life as it develops in the womb.
Quite simply, it's the females body, it doesn't belong to the state, and if it's anyone's, the zygote is hers, hers alone. To treat a female in any other way is slavery. Which has been abolished in the USA. Oh I'm still anti-abortion, but pro-choice must always comes first. Oh yeah, and one has to remember, that it's the female that has to live with her decision to abort.

Sure we should and can council her on everything she should consider before making such a choice as abortion, but that's as far as we should go, lest we be a dictatorship, owners of people.

The truth is that all republicans want, are unwanted children to be poor and uneducated, so they can 'figuratively' hide behind their bodies in a war-zone, knowing the bravery of being out of range, so as to protect their money interests. They want those unwanted babies to simply be cannon fodder to protect their power interests. You know they surely won't go to the front, at least until after the war is won, simply for a photo-op!

And this is the state of the fucked up humans, dumbest animals on the planet. Did I say cowardly? Did I say evil? Did I say murders? Yes, those too!
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Dontaskme
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Re: Abortion

Post by Dontaskme »

Sculptor wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 6:30 pm Not sure why all the American religionists are in such a funk about abortion.

God is a far more effective abortionist; miscarrying far more foetuses than modern medicine. Most foetuses he aborts within the first couple of days. God aborts as many as 70% of all pregnancies without the mothers permission.

A human abortionist is so much more moral than God.
Frankensteinian tyrants can do what they want with their own experiments. That's the concept of God in a nutshell.

To add insult to injury, IC apologises by advocating for this bizarre phenomena.

Humans even plead with god ...''why'' god ''why'' ..but he never reads, listens, or answers...he never wanted you to have knowledge, or to be able to think for yourself...because that would have meant we became like him. And according to him no other one has authority but he himself... ( chuckles)

What's even more bizarre, sick as sick could be, is that god gives you free will, and then punishes you for using it. You are expected to use free will only the right way, never the wrong way...if you use it the wrong way, then you are an evil kunt..yep, the game is rigged from the start...only a fool would play it. That's why IC plays it, because only a fool would ever ponder the idea ''that there is something in this for me'' trap.

You'll never kill a cheese chaser.

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Sculptor
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Re: Abortion

Post by Sculptor »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 11:26 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 6:30 pm Not sure why all the American religionists are in such a funk about abortion.
God gives life. Of course, therefore, He has the right to withdraw it, if He chooses. But what he is doing in each case of a child stillborn or premature, or miscarried is up to Him. He gives; He has the right to choose where and how.

You don't.
Says who?

The same murdering, butchering, mutation creating god that kills 70% of foetuses without permission causing psychological harm to the pregnant women he abuses?? You mean that God.
That monster you think we should all bow down to.
Fuck you
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Dontaskme
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Re: Abortion

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 11:26 pm
God gives life. Of course, therefore, He has the right to withdraw it, if He chooses. But what he is doing in each case of a child stillborn or premature, or miscarried is up to Him. He gives; He has the right to choose where and how.

You don't.
So god gives life....and god takes life, and god gives the experience of suffering, and god takes away the experience of suffering, and god gives the experience of pleasure, and got takes away the experience of pleasure....
But the 'YOU' does not.

Hmm, does the ''You'' do anything at all? ..and if the 'You' does not do anything at all, then that's what nonduality is also pointing to...which you reject. :roll: but it's not 'you' rejecting. :lol: because 'you' does not do.

...but if the 'You' does do ...then this doer could only be known by god as ... doing as I say not as I do...right?

...doing as I say not as I do...is saying I do not do I only say I do. Therefore....all doing is done according to the sayer that says it is doing / knowing it is doing because doing says so.

Concepts IC..concepts all the way down.











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Dontaskme
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Re: Abortion

Post by Dontaskme »

Sculptor wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 9:16 am Fuck you
IC cannot fuck 'you'..because 'you' do not. :lol:

IC is only fucking with himself. Even the delusion that IC believes he is related to ...you know the ( you dont you )...got itself killed for pretending to have an imaginary friend. But as you can see...imaginary friends cannot be killed, because here it is in the form of IC who is keeping the lie of his death well and truly alive as we speak. :lol:

And you wonder why people like IC reject the nondual truth...it's because it's a total mind fuck that IC cannot handle..so IC substitutes one mind fuck for another, one that pleases him because he does not like the alternative which is the ( You dont)

And that's why he ignores me now...because he knows I'm causing him to fall into his own conceptual trap. And he hates it, he just wants to kill it, pretend it's not there. Like what they did to Jesus...but unlike Jesus...IC is just a coward .. :lol:

I know you probably have no idea what I am talking about Sculptor ...but IC does...and apologies if you do too.
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Sculptor
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Re: Abortion

Post by Sculptor »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 9:53 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 9:16 am Fuck you
IC cannot fuck 'you'..because 'you' do not. :lol:

IC is only fucking with himself. Even the delusion that IC believes he is related to ...you know the ( you dont you )...got itself killed for pretending to have an imaginary friend. But as you can see...imaginary friends cannot be killed, because here it is in the form of IC who is keeping the lie of his death well and truly alive as we speak. :lol:

And you wonder why people like IC reject the nondual truth...it's because it's a total mind fuck that IC cannot handle..so IC substitutes one mind fuck for another, one that pleases him because he does not like the alternative which is the ( You dont)

And that's why he ignores me now...because he knows I'm causing him to fall into his own conceptual trap. And he hates it, he just wants to kill it, pretend it's not there. Like what they did to Jesus...but unlike Jesus...IC is just a coward .. :lol:

I know you probably have no idea what I am talking about Sculptor ...but IC does...and apologies if you do too.
IC is a waste of oxygen.
He's blinded by his absurd religious blinkers; a dinosaur of the Victorian age.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Abortion

Post by Dontaskme »

Sculptor wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 10:25 am
IC is a waste of oxygen.
He's blinded by his absurd religious blinkers; a dinosaur of the Victorian age.

I know...I'm so sick of it.

I'm so sick of suckling on my own sick..it's all just sick...only a fool would eat it's own sick. However, the phenomena is normal...we're all fools here, some are bigger fools than others.

Image

The only way to avoid getting sick..is to stop breeding it.

But I guess we're all just addicted to SICK
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