Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:04 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:40 pm
I used to think that things like "business" and "industry" meant "conservative." That's an easy mistake, because they run on capital, so that would seem to make them enemies of the Left. But I can see it's not that way anymore. Big business...the biggest, the major corporations...Disney, Amazon, Gillette, Google, and so on...and the big banks...are now totally supporting the Left.
The right set them free, so they reap as they have sown. Also, those organizations don't give a shit about left or right. They used to support the right (on the surface) and the right supported them and supported taking away restrictions on them and conflated their freedom with the freedom of the little person. Now for complicated reasons they support Leftist social policies, though not leftist ideals in other areas. Deregulation was a watchword on the right. And absolutely part of making government smaller and conservatice idols defunded for example industry oversight and then made it easier for industry to control these parts of government.
You're not wrong on any point here. Too many conservatives trusted business. Business loves Leftism for its own reasons...but they're not complicated reasons. Power, wealth, advantage...very easy to understand. And now the Left is letting itself get used, because they realize they can all win here.
Leftism gets global Communism. Power.
Business gets to pillage unimpeded. Money.
The major media become the only source of information. Audience.
All win. The ones who lose are the ordinary people. But who cares about them, they figure. Isn't the fact that we are rich and powerful proof of our right to pillage them at will?
At first, that puzzled me. Then I saw why. The Left and big business have discovered they have a common value: totalitarianism (politically) and monopoly (economically).
The New left is pretty blind to what is happening and contributing to it, I agree.
I don't think they're "blind to it." I wish they were.
I think they are now being very deliberate in their collusion. But the low-level Marxists, the proles, have no idea what's going on, it's true. The Marxist bigwigs, though...they know....and they're very happy about it.
Back then the left was extremely skeptical about both government and big business.
No, only business. They've always been for centralized government and a monopoly on power.
We are being cleverly played off agasint each other.
No doubt.
... they hate us all.
Marxist ideologues and big business have that in common: fear of the ordinary man, and contempt for him, even while they rattle on about "serving the public."
But Marxists, once they win, immediately establish tight control -- and why? Because the ordinary man
was never actually trusted in the first place.
These new autocrats know that the same forces of ground-level revolution they ginned up to win their postion can be mobilized against them; so ruthless, brutal suppression must follow immediately, followed by the tightest controls possible.
They've decided they can "win" together. So we now see the reversal. Unions are being sold out by the corporations, and the politicians are helping it happen. In return, the corporations are now all in favour of "climate measures" and the WEC. Both of them are using the major media, who are totally on board with the new program, since they get their slice of the pie, too: information domination. Both the Left and big business have decided that the only size for them is "global." And all the power has to be concentrated in one place: their hands.
And most conservatives go along with this. [/quote]
Not really, and definitely not anymore. That's why the media rage at the conservatives, calling them deplorable, and stupid, and racist, and red necked, and Trumpist, and backward, and so on. And that's why they're totally silent when the Leftists riot, or an "approved minority" shoots up a school or drives his truck into a crowd of "rednecks" and kills a bunch of old ladies and children.
The Left is starting its suppression with their most obvious current opponents. But once they have power, they're coming for the rest. Count on it.
But those in power used the right to free them from any restraint and oversight.
Not quite. It's true that conservatives were too credulous about big business, but it's the Left that arranged the big buyouts for the major banks, while the conservatives were damned as "Tea-Party radicals." So we now have the bizarre spectacle of the Left protecting big business from its own stupid and venial decisions, and doing it with Joe Lunchbucket's tax money.
So the worm has truly turned.
...they HAVE TO OWN UP to their role in letting this monster loose or it's just bs.
So does the Left.
But does it matter anymore? It seems to me the more important message for both sides is "wake up, and don't let this thing happen." We can waste time on hand-wringing later.
And fascism is exactly what they're aiming at...or better, global Marxism, with them left as the new Politburo, the media as the new Pravda, and big business as the new, monopolistic State.
In the end communist ussr or china typ government or an extreme fascism end up being pretty much the same, even aesthetically.
Absolutely. Gulags aren't a whole lot better than death camps. The net effect is the same...just a little slower. And they're both Socialist, so there's an inherent affinity there. The Nazis didn't disagree with the Communists over things like centralizing power, personality cults, nationalizing industries, military conquest, and rounding up unwanted minorities; they just disagreed over who should run the show. International socialists are no improvement on national socialists.
It's the small-government conservatives, who they call "rednecks" and "flyover country dwellers," and "deplorables" who are the ones remaining against this. The unions...the poor old Leftist unions...don't realize they're the next calves into the slaughterhouse. But we're seeing that already: Joe Lunchbucket has no job anymore, can't afford his groceries and gas, and can't pay his bills. But under the Leftist regimes, big business continues to rake in the cash and increase in size.
Sure, I think something like the Chinese model is the dream. Utterly unregulated corporations and utterly regulated individuals. I don't think this is what most of the left wants, but I do see them helping it along.[/quote]
Yes, something closer to "Red Capitalism" is the new model of Communism.
And the Chinese have paved the way in it, but we're now beyond them, too. Because they never thought to arrange an actual collusion between exploitative businesses and Leftism. They just tried to run it all governmentally, and then discovered they could make more money by dabbling in the market semi-free. But just semi. And the politics, well, they remained very tight. That story's still playing out, but it's not in a good place right now.
The Neocons did their job, and I would certainly consider Hilary one of the and her old hubby also.
The Left now uses a new pejorative: "neo-liberalism." That is, people who believe in classical liberal values like freedom, property, individuality, conscience and choice, and thus are not
sufficiently Marxist. So the extreme Left is now working on severing its own moderate arm, and condemning them as "conservative."
The Left always ends up eating its own.
It's not a coincidence that roe vs wade fell now. You need the left to be as uproared as the right has been. Now everybody has a huge checklist of hate to run through every day, and it won't be focused on people with power.
I doubt the Leftists arranged that, but they sure want to capitalize upon it. And yes, they want things as polarized as possible. For Marxism always needs an enemy; lacking any vitality or good ideas of its own, it relies upon hatred and resentment to drive its machine. It thrives in an atmosphere of suspicion and antagonism, and uses it to distract from its own shorcomings...like the fact that it has no particular economic plan, no actual vision of the future or idea of how it can be brought about, no concept of human nature worth spit, and no understanding of motivaton that does not come down to nothing more than power.
Leftism needs opposition in order to continue to remain vital. So there must be new enemies all the time...manufactured, if not real ones, so the State can continually justify its interventions, and so that its visionary bankruptcy doesn't become obvious to the populace on all sides.