seeds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:31 am
seeds wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:37 pm
Yeah, but your "above reasons" are based on you mistakenly conflating the limitations implicit in the workings of physical matter with that of the infinite possibilities inherent in the workings of mind and consciousness.
promethean75 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:42 pm
See you're talking about 'mind' and 'consciousness' as if they were things that we possess, rather than as descriptions of meaningful behaviors...
Yes, that's true.
SO, who and/or what is this 'we' who SUPPOSEDLY and ALLEGEDLY 'possesses' 'mind' and/or 'consciousness'?
seeds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:31 am
However, when I speak of the "mind," I am talking about what I suggest is a
living "arena" in which our thoughts and dreams are created and suspended.
Some people refer to the Universe, Itself, as the
living arena, where ALL 'things' HAPPEN.
seeds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:31 am
For example, close your eyes and create the image of a basketball before the "eye" of your mind
But 'I' am WAITING for 'you' to EXPLAIN what this 'we' 'thing' IS, EXACTLY, which SUPPOSEDLY and ALLEGEDLY "has" its OWN 'mind'. And, of which, that 'possessed' 'mind' now has some sort of 'eye' attached to 'it'.
seeds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:31 am
and then shuffle it over to the left-hand side of your inner field of vision.
What happens when 'one's' 'field of vision' is INFINITE in size?
seeds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:31 am
Next, create the image of a golf ball and shuffle that over to the right-hand side of your inner field of vision so that there is a good deal of space in between the two.
And just for kickers, cause the golf ball to orbit around the basketball like the moon orbits the earth.
(I suggest that you try to imagine the objects as possessing a level of clarity and realism as the objects you experience while dreaming.)
The point is that the inner
"spatial arena" in which those two holographic-like objects are suspended and orbiting each other is a part of the extended essence of your own personal being. And it is that extended essence that makes-up what I am calling the
"mind."
So, WHO AGAIN, is the one that OWN or 'possesses' this so-called 'mind' 'thingy'?
seeds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:31 am
And just to address a couple of points in the video you linked to, one of Peter Hacker's fictional characters stated the following bits...
...the question I think is what a human being is? I mean we speak of having a mind and having a body. It seems as if the entity that has the mind and has the body is the "I," but what exactly is this "I"?
The "I" is the self-aware entity (the inner mental "agent") that willfully created the basketball and the golf ball in my earlier suggestion as to what the mind is.
So, the proper AND correct answer to the question, 'Who am 'I'?', is 'what', EXACTLY?
Also, considering that a human being, which goes by the name of "seeds" here, literally, planted the 'construct' of "a basketball and a golf ball", through 'suggestive thoughts', then it could be argued that it was 'you', the one known as "seeds" here, who WILLFULLY CREATED the "basketball and golf ball" IMAGE.
seeds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:31 am
And what that means is that you are carrying around - right within your own skull - a perfect representation of substance dualism. And that's because the
creator of the basketball and the golf ball does not seem to be made of the same malleable substance from which those two objects are formed.
...Is it a self?
Yes, the "I" is the self.
And HOW MANY of these 'I's' do 'you' PROPOSE there are EXACTLY?
In fact, the "I" and the "self" and the "soul" are all synonyms for the same thing.
seeds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:31 am
And what's a human being? Is it a self-attached to a mind and body?
As pointed out earlier, the mind is the self's extended essence that forms the inner spatial arena in which the self's thoughts and dreams are created and suspended.
But, WHO and/or WHAT is the 'self' EXACTLY, (which is SUPPOSEDLY and ALLEGEDLY in POSSESSION of 'mind' or 'minds')?
seeds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:31 am
Whereas, on the other hand, the body and, especially, the brain represent the physiological means by which the self (aka, the "I"/"soul") is awakened into existence.
Just for information, there is FAR SIMPLER EXPLANATION, which can be and IS FAR EASIER UNDERSTOOD. And, which by the way, IS ACTUALLY IRREFUTABLE.
seeds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:31 am
Or is the self the mind?
No, the self is not the mind, it is the owner of the mind.
HOW MANY 'selfs' are there SUPPOSEDLY throughout the Universe?
seeds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:31 am
The self is that which sits at the throne of consciousness within the mind's arena.
HOW BIG, or SMALL, is "the mind's" arena?
What happens, IF there are MANY 'selves', and some who CHOOSE to NOT possess a 'mind', AT ALL, and so have NO so-called "mind's arena"?
By the way, WHEN do 'you', 'selves', CHOOSE to POSSESS a 'mind' or NOT?
And, what IS 'consciousness', EXACTLY, which 'you', "selves", SUPPOSEDLY and ALLEGEDLY "sit at the throne OF"?
What happens when 'you', "selves", are NOT YET ABLE TO answer the question, 'Who am 'I'?', properly and correctly, then WHERE are those ones "sitting", EXACTLY?
Those ones CERTAINLY do NOT seem to be "sitting at the THRONE of 'consciousness' YET", AT ALL
seeds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:31 am
But if the self is the mind, how can we speak of it having a mind?
Again, the self is not the mind.
But when I ask "bahman" for CLARITY "bahman" TELLS US that 'you' are the 'mind'.
So, when are 'you', human beings, ACTUALLY going to COME TOGETHER and WORK OUT and/or DECIDE what is ACTUALLY and IRREFUTABLY True, Right, AND Correct in Life?
After all 'you' have been having these nearly EXACT SAME so-called "discussions" for MILLENNIA now, hitherto when this was being written.
seeds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:31 am
Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to think of the self as having a mind.
If 'you' SAY SO. But, are 'you' CAPABLE of EXPLAINING to the rest of 'Us' what this 'self' IS, EXACTLY?
And, in a NON CONTRADICTORY WAY?
seeds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:31 am
I'm afraid we are confused.
Yes they are, but not quite as confused as the self-declared forum "troll" who recommended the video, and who claims that he would rather be fishing than debating such things.
What's the deal, dude?
Is this how you troll people? You goad them into responding to something and then blow them off by insisting that you just don't have the patience to do these types of exhausting arguments over and over again?
(Btw, it would help if you used the site's quote system. It notifies us when someone posts a reply to our own posts.)
_______
VERY True.
It also helps in WORKING OUT EXACTLY who is being RESPONDED TO, without HAVING TO read back through posts.