Skip wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:53 am
Whereas, pretending that 'society' which encompasses all nations, can act as a conscious agent isn't.
Society IS all conscious agents.
Self-organization.
Nothing to do with nations. That's your misunderstanding. Nations are emergent phenomena.
Skip wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:53 am
You mean society
can't do anything, after all?
The scale sure seems to confuse you.
YOU can't do much (if anything) to influence society. You can't move the needle!
Your level of influence goes no further than a handful of people at once.
That's a few hundred thousand short of having actual control over any given province/city.
That's a few million short of having actual control over any given country.
That's a few billion short of having actual control over society as a whole.
Even if you find yourself in a position of power/influence you'll figure out how easy it is to plan things and how difficult it is to make this plan come to fruition.
Ideas are easy. Policy-setting is easy. Writing laws is easy. Execution and reification of what has been written is hard for various human reasons.
Skip wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:53 am
Not mine. Just a citation.
A citation chosen/endorsed by you.
Skip wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:53 am
If anything happened by magic, we'd all have to change our narratives.
In so far as anything happens outside of any individual's awareness/control/narrative - it's all magic.
There's no narrative that can capture the complexity of individual decision-making that produces the outcomes that you are observing.
All narratives of HOW anything happens in society are naive over-simplifications. You would do best to
avoid the narrative fallacy
Skip wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:53 am
The purpose of the list was simply to illustrate that different societies - nationally designated and identified sections of the great big all-inclusive Society - manage health care differently; that there are more and less effective systems existing in the world at the same time.
And the purpose of my point was to indicate that the difference is relative. You could shuffle or invert that list and you'd still object just same.
Because you are holding a normative view of "It's never good enough".
Skip wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:53 am
You think the same of a cheap car as of the WHO report on health-care? Ho-kay.
You are working double over-time to strawman me, aren't ya? I explicitly used a NON-cheap car in my example.
For precisely the same reason. You are measuring efficiency (inputs vs outputs). I am pointing that that there wasn't even an output 200 years ago.
Skip wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:53 am
No. I'm pointing out that spending more money doesn't necessarily get better results: there are other factors.
Which is precisely the point I made re: using a very expensive car for traveling from A to B.
Skip wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:53 am
I don't understand why you're harping on 200 years ago.
Because you don't exist in a contemporary vacuum. The past causes the present.
Skip wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:53 am
You asked what I want, not what's possible. If you're not aiming for 100%, you're not really trying.
Ah well, if we are back to dick-measuring, then let me point out that your standards are abhorrent!
If you aren't aiming for 1000000000000000000000000000% you aren't really trying...
Skip wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:53 am
Yes.
So which of those are aiming for 100% (but not for 1000000000000000000000000000%) ?
Skip wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:53 am
They? Variously.
So where's China at on your 0-to-100% scale?
Where's Nigeria?
Where's France?
Where's Israel?
Skip wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:53 am
No, that little nationally designated and identified segment of Society called France is doing a pretty good job of delivering health care to that little nationally designated segment of Humanity called the French people.
Yes! And they are doing a piss-poor job of delivering it to the French people! Relative to the 100% or 1000000000000000000000000000% goal we have established.
Skip wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:53 am
They're not delivering it to all the other billions of people in the great big all-encompassing Society.
Nobody is saying they are. We are criticising them on their own merits now.
Failing to strive for 100% or 1000000000000000000000000000%
Skip wrote: ↑Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:53 am
They're just showing an example of how, if they were paying attention and wanted to do better, all those segments might improve their performance.
Which I think would be worth doing.
That's all.
Medice, cura te ipsum!
Till they get to 100% or 1000000000000000000000000000% I don't think they should be showing anybody anything.