AI Army

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Hermit Philosopher
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AI Army

Post by Hermit Philosopher »

Considering that soldiers are people, trained to do inhumane things, which they suffer greatly from having to do; how do we feel about a future AI army?

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Re: AI Army

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Hermit Philosopher wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:57 pm how do we feel about a future AI army?

They're already here right now. Welcome to world war ? ( insert number here ) for all those who are counting.
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Re: AI Army

Post by attofishpi »

Hermit Philosopher wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:57 pm Considering that soldiers are people, trained to do inhumane things, which they suffer greatly from having to do; how do we feel about a future AI army?

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Finally, someone raising an EXTREMELY important point. This is something that has been on my mind, and have on occasion raised but at least U bothered to create a thread for it.

Legislation needs to be put in place now, in the least to ensure both private citizens (likely the mega rich) AND our government(s) cannot use robots to exert ANY force over others (within our own society).

On the flip side - if we could build an entire army of them to kill off the likes of Assad, Putin, Xi Xi Ping Pong and the entire CCP - well, ya DO IT.

Let's face it - a robot pigeon that explodes when Putin attempts to give it some seed (or swish it away) could do the job..
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Re: AI Army

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attofishpi wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:47 pm
Hermit Philosopher wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:57 pm Considering that soldiers are people, trained to do inhumane things, which they suffer greatly from having to do; how do we feel about a future AI army?

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Finally, someone raising an EXTREMELY important point. This is something that has been on my mind, and have on occasion raised but at least U bothered to create a thread for it.

Legislation needs to be put in place now, in the least to ensure both private citizens (likely the mega rich) AND our government(s) cannot use robots to exert ANY force over others (within our own society).

On the flip side - if we could build an entire army of them to kill off the likes of Assad, Putin, Xi Xi Ping Pong and the entire CCP - well, ya DO IT.

Let's face it - a robot pigeon that explodes when Putin attempts to give it some seed (or swish it away) could do the job..

Dear attofishpi

Thank you for your input. On an emotional level, I share your fears and I too feel society needs to be protected somehow from all that could go wrong down this line.

Yet in this particular post, I was thinking of what it would mean for soldiers. Aside from them eventually being replaced and having to retrain, etc (and I’m not downplaying the psychological impact of that either); I was wondering: are there arguments for an AI army as means of minimising work-environmental trauma for soldiers?

Among the homeless where I live, for instance, are a great many ex military people who’s lives will never return to normal. It is awful to see how they too are victims of the wars they fought and how easily they may be lost to us forever.

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Re: AI Army

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I spent time in the military. I wouldn't say that I was "trained to do inhumane things."
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Re: AI Army

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Terrapine Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:22 pm I spent time in the military. I wouldn't say that I was "trained to do inhumane things."

Dear Terrapine Station

Thank you for you input.
Please forgive my wording; I mean no disrespect.

I believe the military is trained to protect and defend and for this, one is thankful. But as doing so, at times will require the killing of others, must one not train to be able to kill and be okay with having done so...? Or is that a natural ability, would you say? Again, it may not come across that way, but I ask respectfully.

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Re: AI Army

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[quote="Terrapin Station" post_id=496572 time=1613485366 user_id=12582]
I spent time in the military. I wouldn't say that I was "trained to do inhumane things."
[/quote]

Deontology ("duty" ethics) is an abdication of your morality. It's inhuman, of not inhumane, to allow others to do your ethical reasoning for you. Following other's orders without a full understanding of both their ethical capacity and an internal understanding of what you OUGHT to do when there's a conflict, you're acting as a tool, not an ethical agent. It's inhumane for a person to act with reckless disregard for harm in this manner in in any instance where harm actually occurs.
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Re: AI Army

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Advocate wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:47 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:22 pm I spent time in the military. I wouldn't say that I was "trained to do inhumane things."
Deontology ("duty" ethics) is an abdication of your morality. It's inhuman, of not inhumane, to allow others to do your ethical reasoning for you. Following other's orders without a full understanding of both their ethical capacity and an internal understanding of what you OUGHT to do when there's a conflict, you're acting as a tool, not an ethical agent. It's inhumane for a person to act with reckless disregard for harm in this manner in in any instance where harm actually occurs.

Dear Advocate

Though I am sure there are reasons for you feeling passionate about getting your point across to @Terrapin Station, may I ask that you attempt to either do so without insulting them or kindly do it elsewhere, please?

On a different note: have you an opinion on whether an AI army could relieve trauma for soldiers?

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Re: AI Army

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Hermit Philosopher wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:57 pm Considering that soldiers are people, trained to do inhumane things, which they suffer greatly from having to do; how do we feel about a future AI army?

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three nations -- oceania, eurasia and eastasia -- war usin' roombas (or, bolos): the most obvious danger is a never-ending conflict...if no man ever endangers himself, never risks himself, to preserve his home, there's no incentive for peace

war becomes chess (more than it already is)

less obvious danger...

war with roomba proxies (just automation) is one thing; bolos (thinking machines) is another

it's the skynet problem: the proxies evolve, decide man is the problem, and move toward a final solution (eliminatin' us)

no, it's best we stay primitive and involved in our wars...better we should put our leaders on the front lines than our vacuum cleaners
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Re: AI Army

Post by Advocate »

[quote="Hermit Philosopher" post_id=496609 time=1613489125 user_id=3927]
Dear Advocate

Though I am sure there are reasons for you feeling passionate about getting your point across to @Terrapin Station, may I ask that you attempt to either do so without insulting them or kindly do it elsewhere, please?

On a different note: have you an opinion on whether an AI army could relieve trauma for soldiers?

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[/quote]

Despite your flowery presentation, I'm not going to take your implication of insult seriously as that understanding is neither warranted or intended.

And since you believe you OUGHT to ask me to go elsewhere, based on an invalid understanding of both the harm principle and ordinary English ("you" can be either generic or particular), I'm going to just foe/ignore you now. Probably this could rightly be considered an insult. But at least it was warranted.
Last edited by Advocate on Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AI Army

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Hermit Philosopher wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:35 pm
Terrapine Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:22 pm I spent time in the military. I wouldn't say that I was "trained to do inhumane things."

Dear Terrapine Station

Thank you for you input.
Please forgive my wording; I mean no disrespect.

I believe the military is trained to protect and defend and for this, one is thankful. But as doing so, at times will require the killing of others, must one not train to be able to kill and be okay with having done so...? Or is that a natural ability, would you say? Again, it may not come across that way, but I ask respectfully.

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I don't think there's anything inhumane (or "unnatural" etc.) about killing in self-defense, killing when you're at war with someone, etc. I'd rather see it as "unnatural" to not defend oneself.
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Re: AI Army

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[quote="Terrapin Station" post_id=496621 time=1613490103 user_id=12582]
I don't think there's anything inhumane (or "unnatural" etc.) about killing in self-defense, killing when you're at war with someone, etc. I'd rather see it as "unnatural" to not defend oneself.
[/quote]

FFS! You can't say there are any just acts in furtherance of an unjust war, and you've just ignored whether the war was justified!
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Re: AI Army

Post by henry quirk »

Advocate wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:46 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:41 pm I don't think there's anything inhumane (or "unnatural" etc.) about killing in self-defense, killing when you're at war with someone, etc. I'd rather see it as "unnatural" to not defend oneself.
FFS! You can't say there are any just acts in furtherance of an unjust war, and you've just ignored whether the war was justified!
what makes a war just or unjust?
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Re: AI Army

Post by Impenitent »

henry quirk wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:53 pm
Advocate wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:46 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:41 pm I don't think there's anything inhumane (or "unnatural" etc.) about killing in self-defense, killing when you're at war with someone, etc. I'd rather see it as "unnatural" to not defend oneself.
FFS! You can't say there are any just acts in furtherance of an unjust war, and you've just ignored whether the war was justified!
what makes a war just or unjust?
the victors write the history and the morality

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Re: AI Army

Post by Hermit Philosopher »

henry quirk wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:38 pm /...if no man ever endangers himself, never risks himself, to preserve his home, there's no incentive for peace./

Dear henry quirk

Thank you for your thoughts on this. I found the above to be an especially interesting perspective! I must reflect upon the need of incentive for peace - I have not thought that way...

Again, many thanks.


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