AI Army
- Hermit Philosopher
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AI Army
Considering that soldiers are people, trained to do inhumane things, which they suffer greatly from having to do; how do we feel about a future AI army?
Humbly
Hermit
Humbly
Hermit
Re: AI Army
They're already here right now. Welcome to world war ? ( insert number here ) for all those who are counting.
- attofishpi
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Re: AI Army
Finally, someone raising an EXTREMELY important point. This is something that has been on my mind, and have on occasion raised but at least U bothered to create a thread for it.Hermit Philosopher wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:57 pm Considering that soldiers are people, trained to do inhumane things, which they suffer greatly from having to do; how do we feel about a future AI army?
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Hermit
Legislation needs to be put in place now, in the least to ensure both private citizens (likely the mega rich) AND our government(s) cannot use robots to exert ANY force over others (within our own society).
On the flip side - if we could build an entire army of them to kill off the likes of Assad, Putin, Xi Xi Ping Pong and the entire CCP - well, ya DO IT.
Let's face it - a robot pigeon that explodes when Putin attempts to give it some seed (or swish it away) could do the job..
- Hermit Philosopher
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Re: AI Army
attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:47 pmFinally, someone raising an EXTREMELY important point. This is something that has been on my mind, and have on occasion raised but at least U bothered to create a thread for it.Hermit Philosopher wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:57 pm Considering that soldiers are people, trained to do inhumane things, which they suffer greatly from having to do; how do we feel about a future AI army?
Humbly
Hermit
Legislation needs to be put in place now, in the least to ensure both private citizens (likely the mega rich) AND our government(s) cannot use robots to exert ANY force over others (within our own society).
On the flip side - if we could build an entire army of them to kill off the likes of Assad, Putin, Xi Xi Ping Pong and the entire CCP - well, ya DO IT.
Let's face it - a robot pigeon that explodes when Putin attempts to give it some seed (or swish it away) could do the job..
Dear attofishpi
Thank you for your input. On an emotional level, I share your fears and I too feel society needs to be protected somehow from all that could go wrong down this line.
Yet in this particular post, I was thinking of what it would mean for soldiers. Aside from them eventually being replaced and having to retrain, etc (and I’m not downplaying the psychological impact of that either); I was wondering: are there arguments for an AI army as means of minimising work-environmental trauma for soldiers?
Among the homeless where I live, for instance, are a great many ex military people who’s lives will never return to normal. It is awful to see how they too are victims of the wars they fought and how easily they may be lost to us forever.
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Hermit
- Terrapin Station
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Re: AI Army
I spent time in the military. I wouldn't say that I was "trained to do inhumane things."
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Re: AI Army
Terrapine Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:22 pm I spent time in the military. I wouldn't say that I was "trained to do inhumane things."
Dear Terrapine Station
Thank you for you input.
Please forgive my wording; I mean no disrespect.
I believe the military is trained to protect and defend and for this, one is thankful. But as doing so, at times will require the killing of others, must one not train to be able to kill and be okay with having done so...? Or is that a natural ability, would you say? Again, it may not come across that way, but I ask respectfully.
Humbly
Hermit
Re: AI Army
[quote="Terrapin Station" post_id=496572 time=1613485366 user_id=12582]
I spent time in the military. I wouldn't say that I was "trained to do inhumane things."
[/quote]
Deontology ("duty" ethics) is an abdication of your morality. It's inhuman, of not inhumane, to allow others to do your ethical reasoning for you. Following other's orders without a full understanding of both their ethical capacity and an internal understanding of what you OUGHT to do when there's a conflict, you're acting as a tool, not an ethical agent. It's inhumane for a person to act with reckless disregard for harm in this manner in in any instance where harm actually occurs.
I spent time in the military. I wouldn't say that I was "trained to do inhumane things."
[/quote]
Deontology ("duty" ethics) is an abdication of your morality. It's inhuman, of not inhumane, to allow others to do your ethical reasoning for you. Following other's orders without a full understanding of both their ethical capacity and an internal understanding of what you OUGHT to do when there's a conflict, you're acting as a tool, not an ethical agent. It's inhumane for a person to act with reckless disregard for harm in this manner in in any instance where harm actually occurs.
- Hermit Philosopher
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Re: AI Army
Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:47 pmDeontology ("duty" ethics) is an abdication of your morality. It's inhuman, of not inhumane, to allow others to do your ethical reasoning for you. Following other's orders without a full understanding of both their ethical capacity and an internal understanding of what you OUGHT to do when there's a conflict, you're acting as a tool, not an ethical agent. It's inhumane for a person to act with reckless disregard for harm in this manner in in any instance where harm actually occurs.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:22 pm I spent time in the military. I wouldn't say that I was "trained to do inhumane things."
Dear Advocate
Though I am sure there are reasons for you feeling passionate about getting your point across to @Terrapin Station, may I ask that you attempt to either do so without insulting them or kindly do it elsewhere, please?
On a different note: have you an opinion on whether an AI army could relieve trauma for soldiers?
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Hermit
- henry quirk
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Re: AI Army
three nations -- oceania, eurasia and eastasia -- war usin' roombas (or, bolos): the most obvious danger is a never-ending conflict...if no man ever endangers himself, never risks himself, to preserve his home, there's no incentive for peaceHermit Philosopher wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:57 pm Considering that soldiers are people, trained to do inhumane things, which they suffer greatly from having to do; how do we feel about a future AI army?
Humbly
Hermit
war becomes chess (more than it already is)
less obvious danger...
war with roomba proxies (just automation) is one thing; bolos (thinking machines) is another
it's the skynet problem: the proxies evolve, decide man is the problem, and move toward a final solution (eliminatin' us)
no, it's best we stay primitive and involved in our wars...better we should put our leaders on the front lines than our vacuum cleaners
Re: AI Army
[quote="Hermit Philosopher" post_id=496609 time=1613489125 user_id=3927]
Dear Advocate
Though I am sure there are reasons for you feeling passionate about getting your point across to @Terrapin Station, may I ask that you attempt to either do so without insulting them or kindly do it elsewhere, please?
On a different note: have you an opinion on whether an AI army could relieve trauma for soldiers?
Humbly
Hermit
[/quote]
Despite your flowery presentation, I'm not going to take your implication of insult seriously as that understanding is neither warranted or intended.
And since you believe you OUGHT to ask me to go elsewhere, based on an invalid understanding of both the harm principle and ordinary English ("you" can be either generic or particular), I'm going to just foe/ignore you now. Probably this could rightly be considered an insult. But at least it was warranted.
Dear Advocate
Though I am sure there are reasons for you feeling passionate about getting your point across to @Terrapin Station, may I ask that you attempt to either do so without insulting them or kindly do it elsewhere, please?
On a different note: have you an opinion on whether an AI army could relieve trauma for soldiers?
Humbly
Hermit
[/quote]
Despite your flowery presentation, I'm not going to take your implication of insult seriously as that understanding is neither warranted or intended.
And since you believe you OUGHT to ask me to go elsewhere, based on an invalid understanding of both the harm principle and ordinary English ("you" can be either generic or particular), I'm going to just foe/ignore you now. Probably this could rightly be considered an insult. But at least it was warranted.
Last edited by Advocate on Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Terrapin Station
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Re: AI Army
I don't think there's anything inhumane (or "unnatural" etc.) about killing in self-defense, killing when you're at war with someone, etc. I'd rather see it as "unnatural" to not defend oneself.Hermit Philosopher wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:35 pmTerrapine Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:22 pm I spent time in the military. I wouldn't say that I was "trained to do inhumane things."
Dear Terrapine Station
Thank you for you input.
Please forgive my wording; I mean no disrespect.
I believe the military is trained to protect and defend and for this, one is thankful. But as doing so, at times will require the killing of others, must one not train to be able to kill and be okay with having done so...? Or is that a natural ability, would you say? Again, it may not come across that way, but I ask respectfully.
Humbly
Hermit
Re: AI Army
[quote="Terrapin Station" post_id=496621 time=1613490103 user_id=12582]
I don't think there's anything inhumane (or "unnatural" etc.) about killing in self-defense, killing when you're at war with someone, etc. I'd rather see it as "unnatural" to not defend oneself.
[/quote]
FFS! You can't say there are any just acts in furtherance of an unjust war, and you've just ignored whether the war was justified!
I don't think there's anything inhumane (or "unnatural" etc.) about killing in self-defense, killing when you're at war with someone, etc. I'd rather see it as "unnatural" to not defend oneself.
[/quote]
FFS! You can't say there are any just acts in furtherance of an unjust war, and you've just ignored whether the war was justified!
- henry quirk
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Re: AI Army
what makes a war just or unjust?Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:46 pmFFS! You can't say there are any just acts in furtherance of an unjust war, and you've just ignored whether the war was justified!Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:41 pm I don't think there's anything inhumane (or "unnatural" etc.) about killing in self-defense, killing when you're at war with someone, etc. I'd rather see it as "unnatural" to not defend oneself.
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Re: AI Army
the victors write the history and the moralityhenry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:53 pmwhat makes a war just or unjust?Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:46 pmFFS! You can't say there are any just acts in furtherance of an unjust war, and you've just ignored whether the war was justified!Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:41 pm I don't think there's anything inhumane (or "unnatural" etc.) about killing in self-defense, killing when you're at war with someone, etc. I'd rather see it as "unnatural" to not defend oneself.
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Re: AI Army
henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:38 pm /...if no man ever endangers himself, never risks himself, to preserve his home, there's no incentive for peace./
Dear henry quirk
Thank you for your thoughts on this. I found the above to be an especially interesting perspective! I must reflect upon the need of incentive for peace - I have not thought that way...
Again, many thanks.
Humbly
Hermit