Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theory and other such hot topics.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

barbarianhorde
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:46 pm

Re: Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Post by barbarianhorde » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:58 pm

Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?
Do you know the analogy of Theseus' ship?
Same thing. When does the moms extra tummy-meat become a person?
At which step?

I think maybe only when a person has long been born and forms a real heart felt ethics.

User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 5187
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

"I think maybe only when a person has long been born and forms a real heart felt ethics."

Post by henry quirk » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:53 am

So: my 13 year old, who, as teens do, is playin' around with different ways of thinkin', who currently has no 'real heart felt ethics' of his own, is not a person?

#

"When does the moms extra tummy-meat become a person?"

As I say several times up-thread (with accompanying explanation): I'm thinkin' lil fetus person becomes a person no later than week 12 (and probably a helluva lot earlier than that).

gaffo
Posts: 2467
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Post by gaffo » Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:36 am

henry quirk wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:05 pm
:baby:
24 weeks and prior "meat"

post 24 weeks a baby.

clear enough?

User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 5187
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Post by henry quirk » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:26 am

gaffo wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:36 am
24 weeks and prior "meat"

post 24 weeks a baby.

clear enough?
That's your view.

Mine (again): As I say several times up-thread (with accompanying explanation): I'm thinkin' lil fetus person becomes a person no later than week 12 (and probably a helluva lot earlier than that).

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 8182
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:56 am

henry quirk wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:26 am
gaffo wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:36 am
24 weeks and prior "meat"

post 24 weeks a baby.

clear enough?
That's your view.

Mine (again): As I say several times up-thread (with accompanying explanation): I'm thinkin' lil fetus person becomes a person no later than week 12 (and probably a helluva lot earlier than that).
Which is long before the time that the vast majorities of abortions occur (which is, incidentally, none of your business).

Dachshund
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:40 pm

Re: Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Post by Dachshund » Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:07 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:56 am
henry quirk wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:26 am
gaffo wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:36 am
24 weeks and prior "meat"

post 24 weeks a baby.

clear enough?
That's your view.

Mine (again): As I say several times up-thread (with accompanying explanation): I'm thinkin' lil fetus person becomes a person no later than week 12 (and probably a helluva lot earlier than that).
Which is long before the time that the vast majorities of abortions occur (which is, incidentally, none of your business).
Why are abortions none of any males' business ? That sounds like something Germaine Greer would say and she's a certifiable FUCKWIT. There is a case in the US where a young woman had an abortion without telling her boyfriend (who impregnated her) . The boyfriend was very distressed/pissed off/depressed about this, because the unborn child that was aborted was, of course, HIS child as well. He went to Court, the Court ruled that he that he could sue the abortion clinic that provided the RU - 486 abortifacient drug that his girlfriend used to effect her abortion. He did sue successfully. But it was not a matter of money for this boy, he was devastated psychically by what his girlfriend has done, and I think those wounds will take a long time to heal (if ever). Men aren't like women - they don't forget shit like that; it can haunt them for a long , long time.

Dachshund (Der Uberweiner)
Last edited by Dachshund on Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dachshund
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:40 pm

Re: Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Post by Dachshund » Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:10 pm

gaffo wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:36 am
henry quirk wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:05 pm
:baby:
24 weeks and prior "meat"

post 24 weeks a baby.

clear enough?
Yes, clear enough that you're an ignorant dorkenheimer. :roll: (See my latest post on Abortion and Personhood)

Regards

Dachshund (Der Uberweiner)

User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 727
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Post by Sculptor » Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:31 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:26 am
gaffo wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:36 am
24 weeks and prior "meat"

post 24 weeks a baby.

clear enough?
That's your view.

Mine (again): As I say several times up-thread (with accompanying explanation): I'm thinkin' lil fetus person becomes a person no later than week 12 (and probably a helluva lot earlier than that).
Whilst I would argue for the earliest possible abortion, and agree that 12 weeks would be a better time to aim for than 24 weeks. Foetuses are no "persons" until they are named and certified by live birth.

Premature births at 24 weeks are survivable, though the children can face serious medical conditions. I would try to convince any prospective mother to keep any child over 22 weeks.
Gaffo should take a look at this.
https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/ ... ek-24.aspx

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 8182
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:37 pm

Dachshund wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:07 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:56 am
henry quirk wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:26 am


That's your view.

Mine (again): As I say several times up-thread (with accompanying explanation): I'm thinkin' lil fetus person becomes a person no later than week 12 (and probably a helluva lot earlier than that).
Which is long before the time that the vast majorities of abortions occur (which is, incidentally, none of your business).
Why are abortions none of any males' business ? That sounds like something Germaine Greer would say and she's a certifiable FUCKWIT. There is a case in the US where a young woman had an abortion without telling her boyfriend (who impregnated her) . The boyfriend was very distressed/pissed off/depressed about this, because the unborn child that was aborted was, of course, HIS child as well. He went to Court, the Court ruled that he that he could sue the abortion clinic that provided the RU - 486 abortifacient drug that his girlfriend used to effect her abortion. He did sue successfully. But it was not a matter of money for this boy, he was devastated psychically by what his girlfriend has done, and I think those wounds will take a long time to heal (if ever). Men aren't like women - they don't forget shit like that; it can haunt them for a long , long time.

Dachshund (Der Uberweiner)
Could you get any more repulsive?

User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 5187
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

"Foetuses are no "persons" until they are named and certified by live birth."

Post by henry quirk » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:43 pm

Certainly, that's one legitimate (and, in my view, flawed) way to look at personhood.

As these mediocre and entirely non-exhaustive articles...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personhood

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self

...show, however, the 'legal' view is not the only one on the table.

User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 6442
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: "Foetuses are no "persons" until they are named and certified by live birth."

Post by Immanuel Can » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:03 am

henry quirk wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:43 pm
Certainly, that's one legitimate (and, in my view, flawed) way to look at personhood.
I can't think of what you mean by "legitimate" there. There's not a thing that's "legitimate" about it.

It requires us to imagine that people can just choose to arbitrarily affirm or deny the ontological reality of another person. Sort of like Hitler could do with the Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, and handicapped...

User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 5187
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: "Foetuses are no "persons" until they are named and certified by live birth."

Post by henry quirk » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:08 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:03 am
henry quirk wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:43 pm
Certainly, that's one legitimate (and, in my view, flawed) way to look at personhood.
I can't think of what you mean by "legitimate" there. There's not a thing that's "legitimate" about it.
'conventional' is probably the better choice.

I opened a thread elsewhere: https://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=34602

Anyone with an interest is welcome to trundle on over.

User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 6442
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: "Foetuses are no "persons" until they are named and certified by live birth."

Post by Immanuel Can » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:13 am

henry quirk wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:08 am
Immanuel Can wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:03 am
henry quirk wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:43 pm
Certainly, that's one legitimate (and, in my view, flawed) way to look at personhood.
I can't think of what you mean by "legitimate" there. There's not a thing that's "legitimate" about it.
'conventional' is probably the better choice.
Yeah, "conventional" it is. "Legitimate," it's not.

User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 5187
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

"Yeah, "conventional" it is. "Legitimate," it's not."

Post by henry quirk » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:46 am

"It requires us to imagine that people can just choose to arbitrarily affirm or deny the ontological reality of another person. Sort of like Hitler could do with the Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, and handicapped..."

As I say 'flawed'.

gaffo
Posts: 2467
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Post by gaffo » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:22 am

henry quirk wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:26 am
gaffo wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:36 am
24 weeks and prior "meat"

post 24 weeks a baby.

clear enough?
henry quirk wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:26 am
That's your view.

yes my view on the matter.


henry quirk wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:26 am
Mine (again): As I say several times up-thread (with accompanying explanation): I'm thinkin' lil fetus person becomes a person no later than week 12 (and probably a helluva lot earlier than that).
I did not read the whole thread. the whole Abortion - like gun debate bores me and take the middle ground on both.

if you wish to explain the 12 week thing, i'd welcome understanding your view - as implied before I did not read this entire thread (since abortion is of little interest to me) - but would like to understand your views about "when a human becomes a human" -------no not really interested since the abortion debate does bore me, but do value understanding your views personally on the matter to understand you as a man a do respect in some things (not most - i think you are wrong on most counts - but when in agreement i would like to understand your views on the matter)

again abortion debate bores me personally and i leave the abortion/when cells are a baby to science/viablility (per pragmatism - vs when the "soul is born" and cells become human)

but you refer to 12 weeks and so would welcome understanding of your views on the matter.

I get my nuts in a bunch over Jury Pardon/Nullification.........................."jury what"............... exactly. my nuts are in a bunch over a matter 98-percent know nothing about and instead are fixated on guns and abortion...............the latters i have little interest in.

oh well ;-/.

thanks for reply Sir!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests