Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theory and other such hot topics.

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henry quirk
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Re: Dub

Post by henry quirk » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:05 am

"You lie! That's not what my mother told me! :twisted:"

:laughing:

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Mannie

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:08 am

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:04 am
"They know that nothing they have done has changed the objective truth about the status of a fetus one iota. They can move opinion by using propaganda...but they can't move the facts. In that sense, it's always a waste of time.

That's the thing: they don't have to change reality. All they need to do is adulterate thinkin'. If folks could be convinced that fire freezes then the reality 'fire burns', while apparent, is ignored. In effect the convincing is induced madness.
Your icon is well chosen. You are a cartoon caricature of the great American moron (and learn to spell).

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Mannie

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:51 am

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:04 am
That's the thing: they don't have to change reality. All they need to do is adulterate thinkin'.
No, you're right: that's all they need to keep going, it's true. But it won't make what they're doing right, and "I didn't know" will be no excuse when they have to give account for what they've done. They do know.
'Fire freezes', they say and they'll friggin' kill you for remindin' 'em 'fire burns'.
Yeah, there's a lot of that attitude around today. PC culture is the death of intelligence.

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henry quirk
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Mannie

Post by henry quirk » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:59 am

"No, you're right: that's all they need to keep going, it's true. But it won't make what they're doing right, and "I didn't know" will be no excuse when they have to give account for what they've done. They do know."

No, it doesn't make it right, and -- yeah -- they'll answer for it come right after their respective ends, but their bein' denied Heaven or Valhalla tomorrow is cold comfort for me today.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Mannie

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:23 am

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:59 am
...their bein' denied Heaven or Valhalla tomorrow is cold comfort for me today.
Yeah, that wouldn't be my point, either.

I figure it like the Bible rhetorically asks: "'Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked' declares the Lord God, 'rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?'" (Of course, the follow up answer is "No," as is made clear from the surrounding verses.)

So, in keeping with that spirit, I'd rather they woke up, smelled the coffee, and figured out where they were. And on the off chance that they can, all one can do is hold the line on the truth, and hope they choose to rethink their direction. But it cannot be guaranteed, because people do have a right to live and die on their own terms...and to live with the consequences of what they choose, in that regard.

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henry quirk
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Re: Mannie

Post by henry quirk » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:09 am

"I'd rather they woke up, smelled the coffee, and figured out where they were. And on the off chance that they can, all one can do is hold the line on the truth, and hope they choose to rethink their direction."

They won't smell that coffee. In the 46 years I been payin' attention to things I've yet to see any mass 'see the light' moments (religious, ideological, philosophical, etc). Made crazy: they stay crazy.

#

"But it cannot be guaranteed, because people do have a right to live and die on their own terms...and to live with the consequences of what they choose, in that regard."

Indeed. But they ain't got the right to make me toe their line, to hobble me, or to die on their terms.

Consider: they knowingly degrade what is natural self-understanding (I'm a human individual, I own myself, my value in the world is intrinsic, not dependent on the world); they erode principle (I have a right to my life, my liberty, my property); they elevate 'anthill' as the ideal society, and they will kill to see that anthill realized.

Look over in Dachshund's 'are there any socialists here?' thread. Discussion of theory as though that misbegotten notion actually has legs to stand on. This is the opposition. It won't be reasoned with. Again: Fire freezes', they say and they'll friggin' kill you for remindin' 'em 'fire burns'.

It would be nice if they did their thing with like-minded and went no further, but that ain't enough. No, everyone must be like-minded, and if you say 'no, that's not how I wanna live' then -- like the two on my list -- they threaten and mock and shame and when that doesn't work they burn you out & hang you up.

I'm bein' pessimistic or just seein' things as they are?

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Mannie

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:25 am

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:09 am

They won't smell that coffee. In the 46 years I been payin' attention to things I've yet to see any mass 'see the light' moments (religious, ideological, philosophical, etc). Made crazy: they stay crazy.

#

Jesus wept. Is this the mother of all of your many ironies?

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Mannie

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:26 am

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:09 am
...they will kill to see that anthill realized.
What history shows, every time so far, is you're right.

That's exactly what they do. They dream up a utopia, then manipulate everybody until they get their way; then when utopia doesn't result, they look for scapegoats to blame. And guess who the scapegoats are? Everybody who didn't buy into the program they were' pushing in the first place. And they figure that since 'those people' are holding up utopia, then 'those people' must be very bad people...and they figure it's legit to do whatever they want to, to 'those people.' So they round them up, take away their property, jail them, put them in "reeducation camps" and gulags, or shoot them in the back of the head and hide their bodies in a field.

And surprisingly, utopia still doesn't come. So they go looking for the next batch of scapegoats, and repeat the drill. No matter what, they won't give up their delusion that collectivism is the road to utopia. Even when there are so many bodies that the limbs are sticking out of the ground.

Sad, but true.

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Lacewing
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Re: Mannie

Post by Lacewing » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:14 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:26 am
Sad, but true.
Boo hoo. You love to feast on the rotting carcasses of your delusional stories -- pointing the finger at faceless labeled people you imagine to be the enemy. It's so incredibly absurd and self-serving, and you don't even see/admit it for what it is. Fascinating display of what you're capable of! :lol:

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Mannie

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:25 am

Lacewing wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:14 am
Boo hoo.
Don't cry for me, Argentina.

If you've got tears, you could use them all up on the over 100,000,000 souls in the last century who found out too late that what I said about Leftism was precisely true...right before their bodies rolled into a pit.

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henry quirk
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Mannie

Post by henry quirk » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:33 pm

Let's be fair: the communist has more than his fair share of kills notched on his bedpost, but he ain't the only one...

Kings...Queens...Popes...leaders of every conceivable strain and stripe...directors & controllers of resources...directors & controllers of minds and bodies...pretty much any damn person who uses folks as commodity.

Equally to blame: those who allow themselves to get used that way, who willingly wear the leash or walk to the slaughterhouse. These are the folks who trade off autonomy to preserve autonomy, and -- unfortunately -- they are great in number (though, mebbe, there are not so many as some hoped for).

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Mannie

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:42 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:33 pm
Let's be fair: the communist has more than his fair share of kills notched on his bedpost, but he ain't the only one...
No...but by very, very far, the biggest offender in numbers. So that needs noting.

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henry quirk
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"the biggest offender in numbers"

Post by henry quirk » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:49 pm

I'll give you that.

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A_Seagull
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Re: Mannie

Post by A_Seagull » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:44 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:42 pm
henry quirk wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:33 pm
Let's be fair: the communist has more than his fair share of kills notched on his bedpost, but he ain't the only one...
No...but by very, very far, the biggest offender in numbers. So that needs noting.
.. and no one does it to their own people quite like the communists...

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Mannie

Post by Immanuel Can » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:40 am

A_Seagull wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:44 am
.. and no one does it to their own people quite like the communists...
And everybody else's people too. They're equal-opportunity executioners.

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