Abusive mothers?

[QuantumT]

When a mother uses her child as a weapon against its father, is it then child abuse?

If she uses slander and gossip, and falsely accuses the father of abuse, and eventually turns the child aginst him. If she hinders contact by lying to the authorities. Raises the child with her own opinions. Basicly a brainwash.

Is that child abuse? Or is it not "that bad"?

[Greta]

It is obviously selfish, unethical and destructive behaviour. As a parent, what's best for the child must come first and it's extremely harmful to divide and confuse a child in that way.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Just look at the number of times men have murdered their children as revenge against the mother (yes mothers have killed their children but the vast majority of cases of a parent murdering their children are committed by the father). I don't give a crap if it's not PC, but there is no comparison between a father and a mother. Men can produce offspring all over the planet and not even be aware of it. That's hardly the case with women. Mothers legally have to let their children go with their father, even if the children don't want to, and even if the mother is aware that the father might be a danger to them, but can't prove it. It could be just a 'feeling', and 'feelings' don't stack up legally. Sometimes there are no clues prior to the murders.
My father was ok I suppose, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been devastated if I couldn't see him. Children are often scared of their father.
And no, I wouldn't have felt 'abused' if my mother had complained about him. Children are perfectly capable of making up their own minds about a parent.
And don't blame women for being fearful and protective. Blame nature, and other males.

Ooh. I'll have the thought-police chasing me down with pitchforks and flaming torches.

[Necromancer]

When a mother uses her child as a weapon against its father, is it then child abuse?

If she uses slander and gossip, and accuses the father of abuse, and eventually turns the child aginst him. If she hinders contact by lying to the authorities. Raises the child with her own opinions. Basicly a brainwash.

Is that child abuse? Or is it not "that bad"?

I'd say it is abuse on the following conditions:
1. The child is being held hostage to the mother in terms of motherly love and other motherly needs and care in case "the child isn't indoctrinated properly"
2. The child is forced to listen to the "lies" or slander or whatever unjustifiedly negative, also with threats of physical punishment

There are many factors that may be accounted for such as troubles in the World, people taking advantage of difficulties, father has his own slander and bag of lies, there is hostility between mother and father, there is mental illness involved either one or both, etc.

Tricky it is!

[QuantumT]

Just look at the number of times men have murdered their children as revenge against the mother (yes mothers have killed their children but the vast majority of cases of a parent murdering their children are committed by the father). I don't give a crap if it's not PC, but there is no comparison between a father and a mother. Men can produce offspring all over the planet and not even be aware of it. That's hardly the case with women. Mothers legally have to let their children go with their father, even if the children don't want to, and even if the mother is aware that the father might be a danger to them, but can't prove it. It could be just a 'feeling', and 'feelings' don't stack up legally. Sometimes there are no clues prior to the murders.
My father was ok I suppose, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been devastated if I couldn't see him. Children are often scared of their father.
And no, I wouldn't have felt 'abused' if my mother had complained about him. Children are perfectly capable of making up their own minds about a parent.
And don't blame women for being fearful and protective. Blame nature, and other males.

Ooh. I'll have the thought-police chasing me down with pitchforks and flaming torches.

So, you're basicly defending wrong-doings by pointing to something worse?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Just look at the number of times men have murdered their children as revenge against the mother (yes mothers have killed their children but the vast majority of cases of a parent murdering their children are committed by the father). I don't give a crap if it's not PC, but there is no comparison between a father and a mother. Men can produce offspring all over the planet and not even be aware of it. That's hardly the case with women. Mothers legally have to let their children go with their father, even if the children don't want to, and even if the mother is aware that the father might be a danger to them, but can't prove it. It could be just a 'feeling', and 'feelings' don't stack up legally. Sometimes there are no clues prior to the murders.
My father was ok I suppose, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been devastated if I couldn't see him. Children are often scared of their father.
And no, I wouldn't have felt 'abused' if my mother had complained about him. Children are perfectly capable of making up their own minds about a parent.
And don't blame women for being fearful and protective. Blame nature, and other males.

Ooh. I'll have the thought-police chasing me down with pitchforks and flaming torches.

So, you're basicly defending wrong-doings by pointing to something worse?

Which 'wrong-doings' am I 'defending'? Your OP is just some vague (presumably) hypothetical ramblings with no specifics.

[QuantumT]

Which 'wrong-doings' am I 'defending'? Your OP is just some vague (presumably) hypothetical ramblings with no specifics.

Sorry. I just added "falsely" to "accuses of abuse" to be even more specific, besides these specifications:

- Slander
- Gossip
- Turns the child aginst him
- Hinders contact by lying to the authorities
- Raises the child with her own opinions
- Basicly a brainwash.

You defend these actions? Simply because a few other fathers do worse things?

[henry quirk]

Safe to say: there are shitty parents out there.

If Ma is besmirching Dad when Dad's done no wrong then -- yeah -- she's bein' a bitch

If Dad is doin' the same then -- yeah -- he's bein' a dick.

And yeah: both are bein' 'abusive' (in a broad sense).

And, of course, there are parents who kill their kids.

That's not abuse: that's murder.

What's the point of this thread again?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Which 'wrong-doings' am I 'defending'? Your OP is just some vague (presumably) hypothetical ramblings with no specifics.

Sorry. I just added "falsely" to "accuses of abuse" to be even more specific, besides these specifications:

- Slander
- Gossip
- Turns the child aginst him
- Hinders contact by lying to the authorities
- Raises the child with her own opinions
- Basicly a brainwash.

You defend these actions? Simply because a few other fathers do worse things?

I'm not 'defending' them. The irony here is that you are on here 'bitching and gossiping' about the mother (presumably) of your 'child/children'.
Of course a child is going to raise her child with her 'own opinions'. Who else's is she going to use?
I really don't have a heck of a lot of time for whining fathers. I've yet to hear of a single one who happily pays child support. Usually they can't stand the thought of their 'ex' getting any of their 'hard-earned cash'. They also do a fair amount of gossiping and complaining (not to mention killing) of their exes. I was merely giving some reasons why some women might do what they do.

[QuantumT]

I'm not 'defending' them. The irony here is that you are on here 'bitching and gossiping' about the mother (presumably) of your 'child/children'.
Of course a child is going to raise her child with her 'own opinions'. Who else's is she going to use?
I really don't have a heck of a lot of time for whining fathers. I've yet to hear of a single one who happily pays child support. Usually they can't stand the thought of their 'ex' getting any of their 'hard-earned cash'. They also do a fair amount of gossiping and complaining (not to mention killing) of their exes. I was merely giving some reasons why some women might do what they do.

I have no problems with my ex. I just avoid her. And we make it work. And I don't complain about the child support money.

The experience I have is from my own mother and my own childhood.
I am not angry with her, but we never talk. That's her own fault. She keeps playing the wounded role. It's nausiating. He never hurt her. Noone did.

I grew up missing my father. Longing for him. She took him from me. Now he's dead.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

I'm not 'defending' them. The irony here is that you are on here 'bitching and gossiping' about the mother (presumably) of your 'child/children'.
Of course a child is going to raise her child with her 'own opinions'. Who else's is she going to use?
I really don't have a heck of a lot of time for whining fathers. I've yet to hear of a single one who happily pays child support. Usually they can't stand the thought of their 'ex' getting any of their 'hard-earned cash'. They also do a fair amount of gossiping and complaining (not to mention killing) of their exes. I was merely giving some reasons why some women might do what they do.

I have no problems with my ex. I just avoid her. And we make it work. And I don't complain about the child support money.

The experience I have is from my own mother and my own childhood.
I am not angry with her, but we never talk. That's her own fault. She keeps playing the wounded role. It's nausiating. He never hurt her. Noone did.

I grew up missing my father. Longing for him. She took him from me. Now he's dead.

That's sad for you, but I was only pointing out why some women do what they do. Mothers are only people, and humans and their situations are infinitely complex and varied. She was obviously bitter about something. Children don't really know what goes on between their parents.

[QuantumT]

That's sad for you, but I was only pointing out why some women do what they do. Mothers are only people, and humans and their situations are infinitely complex and varied. She was obviously bitter about something. Children don't really know what goes on between their parents.

They are much more perceptive than most think.
I think parental disputes needs more attention. For the kids. So they don't end up in the middle of the battlefield.

[IvoryBlackBishop]

When a mother uses her child as a weapon against its father, is it then child abuse?

If she uses slander and gossip, and falsely accuses the father of abuse, and eventually turns the child aginst him. If she hinders contact by lying to the authorities. Raises the child with her own opinions. Basicly a brainwash.

Is that child abuse? Or is it not "that bad"?

Why is a silly question like this being asked?

If you mean something that is recognized by law, why don't you read up on it?

I'm sure terrible parents who would be better off not marrying or having children have always existed.