Can slavery ever be justified?

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Philosophy Explorer
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Can slavery ever be justified?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:49 pm

I don't think so on balance. Too many negatives associated with it.

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QuantumT
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Re: Can slavery ever be justified?

Post by QuantumT » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:47 pm

Well we still have technical slavery. Animals serve our needs. Cows, chickens, pigs, sheep.

But amongst humans, no.

Ps. I like meat alot, and I don't plan to stop eating it!

philosopher
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Re: Can slavery ever be justified?

Post by philosopher » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:29 pm

Unfortunately, yes.

Conscription + alternative service for conscientious objectors is slavery. Most countries have conscription, because the people want it.

It's a shame.

I personally don't think conscription can ever be justified, but the vast majority of Earth's population seem to think it can. They are actually arguing in favor of slavery.

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QuantumT
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Re: Can slavery ever be justified?

Post by QuantumT » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:53 pm

philosopher wrote: โ†‘
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:29 pm
Unfortunately, yes.

Conscription + alternative service for conscientious objectors is slavery. Most countries have conscription, because the people want it.

It's a shame.

I personally don't think conscription can ever be justified, but the vast majority of Earth's population seem to think it can. They are actually arguing in favor of slavery.
Good point!

And also paying taxes is slavery, since it's your money, and you can be imprisoned for not paying!

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Kayla
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Re: Can slavery ever be justified?

Post by Kayla » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:39 am

QuantumT wrote: โ†‘
Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:53 pm
And also paying taxes is slavery, since it's your money, and you can be imprisoned for not paying!
i am a part-owner of a business, and as much as i hate paying taxes this is absurd

for starers, the line of business i am in is heavily subsidized - i am a farmer. I think farm subsidies are a good thing (in general, there are many specifics that need work) but just on that basis alone it would be absurd for me to claim that my profits are entirely my own

farming is not the only subsidized industry - there are many others

that aside, my business relies on infrastructure paid for by taxpayers

my daughter goes to school paid for by taxpayers

i take classes at a local community college that give me knowledge and skills to better run my business - and they are heavily subsidized

so it would make no sense for me to insist that the money i make are solely the result of my work and i dont owe anyone anything, that it is entirely "my money"

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bahman
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Re: Can slavery ever be justified?

Post by bahman » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:34 pm

Philosophy Explorer wrote: โ†‘
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:49 pm
I don't think so on balance. Too many negatives associated with it.

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How do you define slavery? Is this a good definition: Using people to work for you while they have lower standard of life.

Belinda
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Re: Can slavery ever be justified?

Post by Belinda » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:37 pm

QuantumT wrote: โ†‘
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:47 pm
Well we still have technical slavery. Animals serve our needs. Cows, chickens, pigs, sheep.

But amongst humans, no.

Ps. I like meat alot, and I don't plan to stop eating it!
There are one or two actions you can take. Eat less meat for instance more veg less meat, or meat free meal once a week. Probably better for you anyway.

Also, unless you are very poor you can perhaps choose best quality meat that has been born, fattened, and slaughtered locally by craftsman butcher.

philosopher
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Re: Can slavery ever be justified?

Post by philosopher » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:01 pm

QuantumT wrote: โ†‘
Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:53 pm
philosopher wrote: โ†‘
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:29 pm
Unfortunately, yes.

Conscription + alternative service for conscientious objectors is slavery. Most countries have conscription, because the people want it.

It's a shame.

I personally don't think conscription can ever be justified, but the vast majority of Earth's population seem to think it can. They are actually arguing in favor of slavery.
Good point!

And also paying taxes is slavery, since it's your money, and you can be imprisoned for not paying!
Conscription is demanding you work for the state, if you don't you get punished.
Therefore, conscription is slavery.

Taxation however, is not. Taxation does not demand you work for anyone to pay your taxes. If you don't sell/buy anything (ie. selling your labor, which laborers do) you don't earn money, you don't pay taxes. It's that simple.

In-fact you have a personal deduction of taxes, before you start paying taxes.

Nobody in the tax departments are demanding you WORK in order to pay taxes. You can also get the money (legally) in other ways. Pensions, shares, interests etc.

Taxation is a neccessity in any civilisation. It pays for welfare and infrastructure and maybe - in the future - Basic Income (or something similar) which grants everybody money to live for without the requirements of work or other activities.

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Re: Can slavery ever be justified?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:07 pm

philosopher wrote: โ†‘
Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:01 pm
QuantumT wrote: โ†‘
Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:53 pm
philosopher wrote: โ†‘
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:29 pm
Unfortunately, yes.

Conscription + alternative service for conscientious objectors is slavery. Most countries have conscription, because the people want it.

It's a shame.

I personally don't think conscription can ever be justified, but the vast majority of Earth's population seem to think it can. They are actually arguing in favor of slavery.
Good point!

And also paying taxes is slavery, since it's your money, and you can be imprisoned for not paying!
Conscription is demanding you work for the state, if you don't you get punished.
Therefore, conscription is slavery.

Taxation however, is not. Taxation does not demand you work for anyone to pay your taxes. If you don't sell/buy anything (ie. selling your labor, which laborers do) you don't earn money, you don't pay taxes. It's that simple.

In-fact you have a personal deduction of taxes, before you start paying taxes.

Nobody in the tax departments are demanding you WORK in order to pay taxes. You can also get the money (legally) in other ways. Pensions, shares, interests etc.

Taxation is a neccessity in any civilisation. It pays for welfare and infrastructure and maybe - in the future - Basic Income (or something similar) which grants everybody money to live for without the requirements of work or other activities.
Semi-related to this nowadays in the US is it's becoming fashionable to expect Medicaid recipients to work. I don't have enough details to make comments, however it seems to tie into conservatism.

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Last edited by Philosophy Explorer on Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Can slavery ever be justified?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:53 pm

I'm adding this question: can marriage be regarded as a form of slavery?

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QuantumT
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Re: Can slavery ever be justified?

Post by QuantumT » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:16 pm

Belinda wrote: โ†‘
Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:37 pm
There are one or two actions you can take. Eat less meat for instance more veg less meat, or meat free meal once a week. Probably better for you anyway.

Also, unless you are very poor you can perhaps choose best quality meat that has been born, fattened, and slaughtered locally by craftsman butcher.
I'm sorry sweatheart, I'm a meat-oholic. More is better! :twisted:
Kayla wrote: โ†‘
Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:39 am
Tax bla bla bla...
philosopher wrote: โ†‘
Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:01 pm
Tax bla bla bla...
You are right. Tax is not so bad, when you think deeper about it.
Philosophy Explorer wrote: โ†‘
Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:53 pm
I'm adding this question: can marriage be regarded as a form of slavery?

๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธPhilX๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ
Only if it's an arranged marriage.

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Greta
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Re: Can slavery ever be justified?

Post by Greta » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:10 am

With improved automation this question may increasingly become moot - unless perhaps there is a Westworld style uprising.

Belinda
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Re: Can slavery ever be justified?

Post by Belinda » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:01 am

QuantumT wrote:
I'm sorry sweatheart, I'm a meat-oholic. More is better! :twisted:
But a meatoholic surely wants quality meat, not diseased meat that's been fattened with hormones and antibiotics?

Belinda
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Re: Can slavery ever be justified?

Post by Belinda » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:03 am

Greta wrote: โ†‘
Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:10 am
With improved automation this question may increasingly become moot - unless perhaps there is a Westworld style uprising.
Improved automation is a reason for the basic living wage for everyone whether they work or not.

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QuantumT
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Re: Can slavery ever be justified?

Post by QuantumT » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:32 pm

Belinda wrote: โ†‘
Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:01 am
But a meatoholic surely wants quality meat, not diseased meat that's been fattened with hormones and antibiotics?
True! In my country the farmers are under pressure to stop using antibiotics (and hormones have never been used).
We're slowly getting there. So I'm in the clear on those points :wink:

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