Smoking - bad, worse or the Devil himself?

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QuantumT
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Re: Smoking - bad, worse or the Devil himself?

Post by QuantumT » Sat May 19, 2018 11:23 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 4:44 pm
Fact: "Smoke inhalation is the primary cause of death for victims of fires. The inhalation or exposure to hot gaseous products of combustion can cause serious respiratory complications.

Some 50–80% of fire deaths are the result of smoke inhalation injuries, including burns to the respiratory system. The hot smoke injures or kills by a combination of thermal damage, poisoning and pulmonary irritation and swelling, caused by carbon monoxide, cyanide and other combustion products." --wikipedia--

Cigarette manufacturers actually 'add' Benzine into their tobacco products. Benzine is a constituent of gasoline, particularly nasty.

Below, read and learn about the 'additives' if you want to understand.

"A list of 599 cigarette additives, created by five major American cigarette companies, was approved by the Department of Health and Human Services in April 1994. None of these additives is listed as an ingredient on the cigarette pack(s). Chemicals are added for organoleptic purposes and many boost the addictive properties of cigarettes, especially when burned.[citation needed]

One of the classes of chemicals on the list, ammonia salts, convert bound nicotine molecules in tobacco smoke into free nicotine molecules. This process, known as freebasing, could potentially increase the effect of nicotine on the smoker, but experimental data suggests that absorption is, in practice, unaffected." --wikipedia--

So what do you think?

I always tell people the truth when I say, "I smoked cigarettes for 15 years, and I tried to quit for 14 years." Of course I've now been cigarette free for over 30 years. And I quit "cold turkey!" Yeah!!
Then, how can some people smoke for decades, from youth till they are 70 or 80, without getting sick? It doesn't add up!

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Greta
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Re: Smoking - bad, worse or the Devil himself?

Post by Greta » Sun May 20, 2018 1:00 am

I note that insurance companies will deny smokers while accepting the obese, the absurd risk takers, sugar addicts, alcoholics and so forth.

Why? Since it's (falsely) been deemed that there is no safe level of smoking, it can be easily measured - either a person smoked or not. By contrast, fast food, stress, danger and alcohol are treated as safe in certain doses and are harder to quantify as a factor in illness. If smoking was treated similarly, it would be found to be roughly as dangerous as those other things when done to the same extremes.

Smoking's excessive demonisation is the result of being thus measurable. Thus it's an easier focus and becomes a target for mob thinking, groupthink.

Meanwhile I note that governments continue not to legislate to force tobacco companies not to include chemicals designed to increase nicotine absorption and, thus addiction, or to prevent them from adding sugars to attract the young. Companies are putting thousands of extra chemicals into tobacco, some being known carcinogens - why are they allowed to do this?

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Re: Smoking - bad, worse or the Devil himself?

Post by gaffo » Mon May 21, 2018 1:34 am

QuantumT wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:00 pm
Is smoking really as dangerous as they say, or are we being dictated by fanatics?

I'm not saying that smoking is harmless, I'm just asking if the warnings are exaggerated or even hysterical?
25/75.

funny now that no-one smokes and we are now killing ourselves out of eating ourselves into obesity.

but that fine and healthy - diabetes be damned.

"mass culture" remains mindless.

just eat yourself to death - at least it healthy and not smoking - even if you die at the same age.

its ok, continue to shovel down the pop and junkfood.

be happy.

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Re: Smoking - bad, worse or the Devil himself?

Post by gaffo » Mon May 21, 2018 1:39 am

Greta wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 1:00 am
I note that insurance companies will deny smokers while accepting the obese, the absurd risk takers, sugar addicts, alcoholics and so forth.

Why? Since it's (falsely) been deemed that there is no safe level of smoking, it can be easily measured - either a person smoked or not. By contrast, fast food, stress, danger and alcohol are treated as safe in certain doses and are harder to quantify as a factor in illness. If smoking was treated similarly, it would be found to be roughly as dangerous as those other things when done to the same extremes.
yep. I dn't smoke when i don't drink, but do when i drink.

so "recreational smoker/drinker.

but that seems foreign concept in today's fanatical society.


--keep eating until death though - that just dandy and a-ok. fine to make me pay for the fatties healthcare costs.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Smoking - bad, worse or the Devil himself?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Mon May 21, 2018 3:48 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 11:00 pm
I don't believe it's even addictive. It's just a habit that many people enjoy. I don't think it's addictive because I tried it for a few months. I stopped, and there were no withdrawals. Nothing. Take heroin for a few months, stop, and see what happens.
I love smoking. While some may argue it is "addictive" I would have to agree with your assessment...the simple truth is that many people enjoy it because it calms nerves, clarifies thoughts, etc. How can one really seperate "addiction" from an "aquired habit"?


For future reference, and to observe the trend I fear today in my country, the nazi's banned smoking when they came into power (if I remember correctly).

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Re: Smoking - bad, worse or the Devil himself?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon May 21, 2018 9:33 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:48 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 11:00 pm
I don't believe it's even addictive. It's just a habit that many people enjoy. I don't think it's addictive because I tried it for a few months. I stopped, and there were no withdrawals. Nothing. Take heroin for a few months, stop, and see what happens.
I love smoking. While some may argue it is "addictive" I would have to agree with your assessment...the simple truth is that many people enjoy it because it calms nerves, clarifies thoughts, etc. How can one really seperate "addiction" from an "aquired habit"?


For future reference, and to observe the trend I fear today in my country, the nazi's banned smoking when they came into power (if I remember correctly).
You should see what the packaging here looks like now. Vomit-inducing. You don't see alcohol packaged in revolting photos of diseased livers and bloated bodies.

Image

Image

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Smoking - bad, worse or the Devil himself?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Mon May 21, 2018 11:46 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:33 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:48 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 11:00 pm
I don't believe it's even addictive. It's just a habit that many people enjoy. I don't think it's addictive because I tried it for a few months. I stopped, and there were no withdrawals. Nothing. Take heroin for a few months, stop, and see what happens.
I love smoking. While some may argue it is "addictive" I would have to agree with your assessment...the simple truth is that many people enjoy it because it calms nerves, clarifies thoughts, etc. How can one really seperate "addiction" from an "aquired habit"?


For future reference, and to observe the trend I fear today in my country, the nazi's banned smoking when they came into power (if I remember correctly).
You should see what the packaging here looks like now. Vomit-inducing. You don't see alcohol packaged in revolting photos of diseased livers and bloated bodies.

Image

Image

Haha that is messed up...what was it you said 30 bucks a pack over there? If I saw that packaging I would probably buy more as it would remind me of all the interesting ways of avoiding a life in wheel chair spanking the nurses that come by.

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QuantumT
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Re: Smoking - bad, worse or the Devil himself?

Post by QuantumT » Tue May 22, 2018 6:56 pm

I get angry when I see the worst of those images. It's crude propaganda and I feel discriminated for choosing my own prefered lifestyle!

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Smoking - bad, worse or the Devil himself?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue May 22, 2018 9:09 pm

QuantumT wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 6:56 pm
I get angry when I see the worst of those images. It's crude propaganda and I feel discriminated for choosing my own prefered lifestyle!
Not to mention hyposcrisy, when you think how much the Govt. reaps from the taxes on them. The revolting packaging also makes squat difference to the smoking numbers.

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Re: Smoking - bad, worse or the Devil himself?

Post by QuantumT » Tue May 22, 2018 9:20 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:09 pm
The revolting packaging also makes squat difference to the smoking numbers.
I heard rumors that says otherwise. But in the business of propaganda, truth is the first victim I guess.

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Re: Smoking - bad, worse or the Devil himself?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue May 22, 2018 11:13 pm

QuantumT wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:20 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:09 pm
The revolting packaging also makes squat difference to the smoking numbers.
I heard rumors that says otherwise. But in the business of propaganda, truth is the first victim I guess.
Could be, but that's the problem with 'statistics'--they can be skewed any way you want. There would also need to be studies done where people were asked exactly why they stopped/didn't start smoking. Here, it's probably just too expensive, especially with the gap between rich and poor getting bigger all the time. Smoking is now a rich man's pastime (although ironically the rich don't tend to smoke).

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Re: Smoking - bad, worse or the Devil himself?

Post by bahman » Wed May 23, 2018 3:10 pm

QuantumT wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:00 pm
Is smoking really as dangerous as they say, or are we being dictated by fanatics?

I'm not saying that smoking is harmless, I'm just asking if the warnings are exaggerated or even hysterical?
Alcohol is the most unhealthy addiction.

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Re: Smoking - bad, worse or the Devil himself?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Wed May 23, 2018 5:00 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 11:13 pm
QuantumT wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:20 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:09 pm
The revolting packaging also makes squat difference to the smoking numbers.
I heard rumors that says otherwise. But in the business of propaganda, truth is the first victim I guess.
Could be, but that's the problem with 'statistics'--they can be skewed any way you want. There would also need to be studies done where people were asked exactly why they stopped/didn't start smoking. Here, it's probably just too expensive, especially with the gap between rich and poor getting bigger all the time. Smoking is now a rich man's pastime (although ironically the rich don't tend to smoke).
The rich in life experience do though...they need too.

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Re: Smoking - bad, worse or the Devil himself?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Thu May 24, 2018 4:04 am

I think it's been made way more dangerous by all these Tobacco companies trying produce cigarettes as cheaply as they can while having a profit incentive to keep their customers by intentionally making the product more addictive. I think more natural, filtered tobacco isn't as bad for you as people would believe. Of course with severe moderation, neither of these things will leave long-term damage. Vaping is definitely the healthiest choice of these three options, no matter how much some people try to protest with whatever they can find that it's not.

However, I do think that any form is nicotine, including e-cigs, is absolutely devastating for your mental health, particularly if you already suffer from anxiety and/or depression. It will worsen nearly every other neurological pathology as well. It's an aspect that many of these anti-smoking campaigns fail to cover. I think an adult ultimately needs to decide this for himself, though.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 11:00 pm
I don't believe it's even addictive. It's just a habit that many people enjoy. I don't think it's addictive because I tried it for a few months. I stopped, and there were no withdrawals. Nothing. Take heroin for a few months, stop, and see what happens.
Ha, I can definitely see why you would think that. I was in the same boat and took up smoking for only a few months of my life, though it was on and off. Generally, I didn't run into too much of an issue, other than maybe feeling a bit more agitated than I usually did, during periods I went without smoking.

But eventually, I ended up going to this sort of weekend long 'hookah party' over at a friend's house. I was working for a smokeshop at the time, and obviously pretty into that type of culture, much more than I am now. From a few simple...miscalculations on my end, I ended up taking so much nicotine that it would make a fully grown, african elephant's shit hit the floor. Over a 3 day period, I exceeded the level considered nicotine poisoning by a sizable margin, and estimated that I had taken in somewhere between 1200-2000 mg of nicotine. Obviously, most of that wasn't smoked, but vaporized and taken in through a hookah.

To add some perspective, at one point, I was vaping 48 mg/ml e-juice through a 75w ecig, which if anyone here knows anything about that kind of stuff, will know that is absolute insanity! And I didn't even realize it was so crazy at the time lol. I thought people were suppose to feel a very (very, very, very) strong head rush when they take tobacco. This is all to make the point, that during the next few days I experienced what I consider to be the 2nd worst drug withdrawals I had ever gotten, and you can probably tell that implies I've taken a lot of drugs. Way worse than my experience with opioid withdrawal (although I can't speak for heroin, specifically) and even benzodiazipines.

So I guess the message is that you don't take tobacco for a fool, or at least be as much of a fool as me, and you'll probably be okay.

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Re: Smoking - bad, worse or the Devil himself?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Thu May 24, 2018 4:13 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 4:04 am
I think it's been made way more dangerous by all these Tobacco companies trying produce cigarettes as cheaply as they can while having a profit incentive to keep their customers by intentionally making the product more addictive. I think more natural, filtered tobacco isn't as bad for you as people would believe. Of course with severe moderation, neither of these things will leave long-term damage. Vaping is definitely the healthiest choice of these three options, no matter how much some people try to protest with whatever they can find that it's not.

However, I do think that any form is nicotine, including e-cigs, is absolutely devastating for your mental health, particularly if you already suffer from anxiety and/or depression. It will worsen nearly every other neurological pathology as well. It's an aspect that many of these anti-smoking campaigns fail to cover. I think an adult ultimately needs to decide this for himself, though.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 11:00 pm
I don't believe it's even addictive. It's just a habit that many people enjoy. I don't think it's addictive because I tried it for a few months. I stopped, and there were no withdrawals. Nothing. Take heroin for a few months, stop, and see what happens.
Ha, I can definitely see why you would think that. I was in the same boat and took up smoking for only a few months of my life, though it was on and off. Generally, I didn't run into too much of an issue, other than maybe feeling a bit more agitated than I usually did, during periods I went without smoking.

But eventually, I ended up going to this sort of weekend long 'hookah party' over at a friend's house. I was working for a smokeshop at the time, and obviously pretty into that type of culture, much more than I am now. From a few simple...miscalculations on my end, I ended up taking so much nicotine that it would make a fully grown, african elephant's shit hit the floor. Over a 3 day period, I exceeded the level considered nicotine poisoning by a sizable margin, and estimated that I had taken in somewhere between 1200-2000 mg of nicotine. Obviously, most of that wasn't smoked, but vaporized and taken in through a hookah.

To add some perspective, at one point, I was vaping 48 mg/ml e-juice through a 75w ecig, which if anyone here knows anything about that kind of stuff, will know that is absolute insanity! And I didn't even realize it was so crazy at the time lol. I thought people were suppose to feel a very (very, very, very) strong head rush when they take tobacco. This is all to make the point, that during the next few days I experienced what I consider to be the 2nd worst drug withdrawals I had ever gotten, and you can probably tell that implies I've taken a lot of drugs. Way worse than my experience with opioid withdrawal (although I can't speak for heroin, specifically) and even benzodiazipines.

So I guess the message is that you don't take tobacco for a fool, or at least be as much of a fool as me, and you'll probably be okay.
So it's actually overdose and not 'withdrawal'.

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