~ Matter of Trust ~

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Bill Wiltrack
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~ Matter of Trust ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:30 pm

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The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that’s required to make it work.

The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.

Banks must be trusted to hold our money and transfer it electronically, but they lend it out in waves of credit bubbles with barely a fraction in reserve. We have to trust them with our privacy, trust them not to let identity thieves drain our accounts.”
Satoshi Nakamoto -




*Fun Fact - The average lifespan of any government based currency, in the history of ALL currencies, is 27 years...




A matter of trust.



Is it possible that humanity is waking-up to the reality that there could be a different, trustless, economic system?



- Those who do not learn from history are prone to repeat it...







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Science Fan
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Re: ~ Matter of Trust ~

Post by Science Fan » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:34 pm

I have no idea why you keep focusing on central banking. In the USA, we know for a fact that when we did not have a federal central bank, that we had numerous crashes because of insufficient currency. In fact, every year when farmers would have to hire people to pick their crops and get them to market, they were literally faced with a cash shortage. This is why there was a movement to add a silver standard for currency in addition to the already existing gold standard --- it was an effort to increase the amount of currency available, because it was insufficient under the gold standard.

There were also problems involving interstate commerce, where the currency issued in one state was considered to be worth less in a neighboring state, so a business trying to do transactions across state lines was vulnerable to currency devaluations going across state lines. A federal central bank unified transactions under one currency and this was no longer a problem.

There is a reason why all modern nations in the west use central banking ----- we have to as the alternatives do not work any where near as well. One of the reasons for the Great Depression of the 1930s was because countries were trying to go back to the gold standard after the end of WWI. The situation would be even worse today. There simply is not enough gold to go around, which means that the price of gold would have to rise considerably to be used for currency. This causes deflation, as everything else falls in price. This deflation causes economic downfalls, as everyone can increase their wealth by hoarding their money as opposed to spending it. Transactions decline and the economy tanks as a result.

There has also never been any case where a currency was established outside of a government body enforcing its use. The cryptocurencies are hardly a substitute for the real thing. Their swings in value alone make them a poor substitute for transactions, and the increased risk involved in using such currencies would contract an economy, as people will be reluctant to engage in long-term financial transactions based on such currencies.

You are literally claiming that the world's economists, people who have advanced degrees in the subject, people who spend their professional lives on the subject, are all mistaken, but you just "know" the answer and how all these experts are mistaken. Have you really thought through how absurd such a position is?

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Matter of Trust ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:05 pm

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All of what you characterized may have been true.


All of my premises are contained in my original post above.
I stand by them.



As far as, You are literally claiming that the world's economists, people who have advanced degrees in the subject, people who spend their professional lives on the subject, are all mistaken, but you just "know" the answer and how all these experts are mistaken. Have you really thought through how absurd such a position is?


I am literally claiming that the world's economists, people who have advanced degrees in the subject, people who spend their professional lives on the subject, were the initiators and responsible actors of the largest financial deboccal in the history of mankind occuring in 2008. T
o the tune of 13 TRILLION dollars.

So, there's that. It's a matter of trust.

So yeah, ALL those experts were mistaken.

And I have thought-out such an absurd position. And the way financial regulations have NOT been changed will allow this absurd position to happen again. Perhaps soon...


That is one of the reasons the concept of decentralization and cryptocurrency are quickly catching on.


The future is here. Now. I understand if you are not with it. You are not alone. Your position and feelings are right for you.


For me, cryptocurrency offers, for the first time in modern human history, the ability to be free. Financially free of a severely broken system that overwhelmingly favors the rich right from the rip.



If you don't see it, that's fine. I actually prefer that you do not see. You do not change...








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Science Fan
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Re: ~ Matter of Trust ~

Post by Science Fan » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:13 pm

And what you are claiming is to know things you could not possibly know. How could you know more about the functioning of the economy than trained professionals who spend decades of their lives studying the economy? Think about it? Your ideas are extremely simple, nothing complex, and you really think that your ideas have not been considered already by economists throughout the globe? We are supposed to believe that they are way off base and your simple idea is the solution? That makes zero sense.

You don't even have a sufficient basis to justifiably believe your opinion is correct.

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Matter of Trust ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:32 pm

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Think what we are expressing here is the basic differences & definitions between centralized & decentralized.


You support the centralized banking system that is here & well established.


You support a government backed, central currency.



Again, that's fine. YOU ARE NOT ALONE!


I'm not attacking you. I don't want to change you.


I look at things differently.


I made my case here within this thread and I defended all the claims I've made.



To say that you are unable to defend your position very well would be inappropriate.

Good day.








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Dontaskme
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Re: ~ Matter of Trust ~

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:25 pm

Matthew 6:19-21
“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFM0pUn4dcA

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Matter of Trust ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:11 pm

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...............................................................................cool vid...





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Re: ~ Matter of Trust ~

Post by Science Fan » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:00 pm

Bill: I have a feeling that you may have misunderstood some of what I was saying, so I just want to clarify my position a bit. 1. I agree with you that the entire economics profession does not seem to understand the economy very well as they fail to foresee major economic crashes. And, they often have high-ranking members, including Nobel Prize winners, who claim that they have permanently eliminated economic crashes, and they make these claims shortly before major crashes. 2. But this supports my claim that the economy is so complicated that it seems unlikely anyone has the economy figured out. 3. People who make claims that they have a one-paragraph solution to the economy, whether this is from a left-wing-nut, like Noam Chomsky, or a right-wing-nut, like Stefan Molyneaux, does not matter, they are making claims that we should all be very suspicious about. Especially since their claims involve ideas that have been tried and failed in the past. 4. I also agree that central banking is far from perfect, and that we can do things to improve central banking. However, I just don't see how eliminating central banking is a viable solution given economic history showing that the USA did far worse when it had no central bank, on average, compared to countries that had central banking.

My position on the economy is that it is so complicated that I am skeptical of any claim that all we need to do is X, and X is some simple-idea, and everything will be just rosy from here on out. I view such claims as ideological snake-oil, and nothing more.

Serendipper
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Re: ~ Matter of Trust ~

Post by Serendipper » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:30 pm

The treasury should issue its own money without have a fed to skim off the top. It would be like Abraham Lincoln's Greenbacks or Ben Franklin's Colonial Scrip. A gold standard is the absolute worst way.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: ~ Matter of Trust ~

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:21 pm

And of course we all know that 'trained professionals' are the ones we need to listen to, especially when it comes to economics :|

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Re: ~ Matter of Trust ~

Post by Science Fan » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:39 pm

And here comes Veggie now with her PC bullshit. It's also anti-intellectual bullshit as well. Yes, one should listen to the people who are educated in a discipline on that discipline. No, your googling is not the equivalent of real knowledge. Just because everyone is entitled to an opinion does not make all opinions equally meritorious, and it most definitely does not mean we should listen to ignorant people regarding disciplines they know essentially nothing about.

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Matter of Trust ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:42 pm

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There will always be banks.


There will always be central banks.



The difference is, here, in this Third Industrial Revolution, for the first time in our lives, we have a viable, accessible alternative to government issued currency.


This won't mean anything to you until
your government issued currency experiences dramatic inflation or even hyper-inflation.


This won't mean anything to you until you find yourself involved in the wrong political party in your country, or based upon other associations you have you find yourself unable to access your bank account or are unable to obtain or use credit cards.



This won't mean anything to you until your bank is hacked or your investment vehicle is hacked.


Cryptocurrency offers a future
of peer-to-peer transactions, without the necessity of a third party to authorize your actions.

Cryptocurrency offers a future
of immutable, hack resistant decentralized store of value in a borderless currency that does not care what political party you belong to or what personal activities you partake in.



Capitalism is killing itself.


I know this. I have been witnessing this spectical all of my adult life.



Don't want to convince or attempt to change anyone's opinion. I DON'T CARE.


I am writing this here to literate formally non-literate expressions within myself.





I don't have a pie-in-the-sky optimistic outlook for our future...



As far as simplistic solutions, - I'm not fixing anything. I know that...The overviews I verbalize are generalizations I share because this is the type of forum that lends itself to generalizations. Generally, I stay away from sharing personal information unless a personal characterization moves a philosophical concept forward.


I really stress my original post here to understand the narrow, specific thesis I wanted to forward.






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Dubious
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Re: ~ Matter of Trust ~

Post by Dubious » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:07 am

Science Fan wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:39 pm
Yes, one should listen to the people who are educated in a discipline on that discipline.
That depends on whether its sociological or science based; even among the latter there are too many conflicting opinions by the "experts". As for economists, they are almost all a bunch of useless screw-ups, most often proven wrong than right. A major concern also, WHO is the so-called expert working for since many will prostitute there diplomas certifying their expertise for money as apologists for corporations...the lowest of the low!

How many times has that happened and continues to happen! It's important to know whose "professional" information you're willing to accept.

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Re: ~ Matter of Trust ~

Post by Science Fan » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:31 am

Dubious: So, please explain why an uninformed opinion on economics is superior to the opinions of the experts? And I'm referring to economic orthodoxy. Like the position that central banking is superior to a gold standard. Now, in what way is it more rational to go with the person who is a non-expert than with the majority of experts? It's not, and you certainly haven't coughed up any explanation for why your position would be correct.

The facts are also that most economists agree on a wide-range of topics. It's also true that most professional economists admit that their knowledge on various topics is far from complete. What most people hear from are the ideologues who say things to a law audience that they would never say to an audience of professional economists.

To the extent the professionals don't know what is going on, how are the uninformed, non-professionals better at knowing what is going on?

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Matter of Trust ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:27 am

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In America, capitalism is hollowing itself-out. The system doesn't work anymore for the vast majority of American citizens.


The top 10% of American workers now earn 50% of the total income.

The top 1% of American workers now earn 20% of the total income.


The tax reform recently passed was the final kick in the face of the vast majority of American citizens.


I am an expert in my outlook & opinion. I don't use a lot of words but I think that bug is a feature.


I don't need or respect an expert telling me everything is fine when they're bending me over & fuckin me.







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