Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

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Arising_uk
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

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Seleucus wrote:Identity is too deep and mysterious for citizenship to be allowed to be a matter of a test or a criteria of proficiency or duties. ...
Oh I see, now it's 'deep and mysterious' when before it was 'genetics' and then language and culture.
The right must be a terrifying and occluded ritual, in the dark, involving the sublime, ecstasy, blood and pain.
Well sure if you are a masochist or sadist but the marxists showed that an explanation of the present and a shared vision of a future works pretty well in creating comradeship, the Christians showed that religion and culture can be changed and the Muslims are showing race not an issue when providing people an identity.
Imagine the experience of Mohawk kidnapped an impressed into Iroquois society, a White woman captured by Moors on the seas or a woman who is traded as a wife into a distant tribe, grok the emotions these people go through as their whole personal identity and who they are metamorphizes.
But I'm not trying to provide a framework for violent change just one that a nation might be able to use to address the current lack of a clear British or English identity that currently seems to be missing for the silent majority in such matters. One that addresses the mix of groups that Empire has left us and attempts to cope with the coming technological changes that will transform the forces of production. As such I think a re-visit to the French Revolution and Rome and the idea of the Citizen could be fruitful, not least because we've always been subjects here.
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Seleucus
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

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Arising_uk wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:53 am
Seleucus wrote:Identity is too deep and mysterious for citizenship to be allowed to be a matter of a test or a criteria of proficiency or duties. ...
Oh I see, now it's 'deep and mysterious' when before it was 'genetics' and then language and culture.
Which is to say the same thing.
The rite must be a terrifying and occluded ritual, in the dark, involving the sublime, ecstasy, blood and pain.
Well sure if you are a masochist or sadist but the marxists showed that an explanation of the present and a shared vision of a future works pretty well in creating comradeship, the Christians showed that religion and culture can be changed and the Muslims are showing race not an issue when providing people an identity.
Correct, like a religious conversion, a mystery, sublime, ecstatic. That's just what I was thinking.
Imagine the experience of Mohawk kidnapped an impressed into Iroquois society, a White woman captured by Moors on the seas or a woman who is traded as a wife into a distant tribe, grok the emotions these people go through as their whole personal identity and who they are metamorphizes.
But I'm not trying to provide a framework for violent change just one that a nation might be able to use to address the current lack of a clear British or English identity that currently seems to be missing for the silent majority in such matters. One that addresses the mix of groups that Empire has left us and attempts to cope with the coming technological changes that will transform the forces of production. As such I think a re-visit to the French Revolution and Rome and the idea of the Citizen could be fruitful, not least because we've always been subjects here.
Exactly, that's why identity transformation isn't happening, because it's being treated as matter of "clear identity" and not understood on the level of terror and impossibility of return that White slaves captured by the Moors or Mohawks kidnapped by Iroquois would have experienced. Agree, Roman citizenship was essentially closed and was only possible through mystery rituals at the ancient hearth through marriage or adoption into the family.
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Arising_uk
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

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Seleucus wrote:Which is to say the same thing. ...
Not really as language follows very clear rules.
Correct, like a religious conversion, a mystery, sublime, ecstatic. That's just what I was thinking. ...
And yet the Catholic faith itself allows revalation through Scripture?
Exactly, that's why identity transformation isn't happening, because it's being treated as matter of "clear identity" and not understood on the level of terror and impossibility of return that White slaves captured by the Moors or Mohawks kidnapped by Iroquois would have experienced. ...
You don't think escaping war, famine, persecution, etc and then trekking across two continents in nothing but your clothes facing slavery, rape, extortion, violence, etc is enough of a terror?
Agree, Roman citizenship was essentially closed and was only possible through mystery rituals at the ancient hearth through marriage or adoption into the family.
Or just joining the Army and serving one's time.

Still not hearing from you about any restrictions you'd place on the white people who wish to adopt, so you'd be fine with the liberal lefties adopting, muslims, gays, etc from other races, etc?
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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

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-1- wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:24 am
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:13 am Depends. Read my Metal Gear story, in the Aesthetics section.
Interesting story. I recommend it as required reading for all other users on this forum.
Thankyou. Sadly, some users don't seem to appreciate it.
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

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Seleucus wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:36 am
Arising_uk wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:30 pm
The bar has to be set very high though...
I don't think there has to be a bar at all, just a clear set of rights, duties and benefits that accrue from becoming a citizen, that and achieving a level of proficiency in the appropriate language.
Identity is too deep and mysterious for citizenship to be allowed to be a matter of a test or a criteria of proficiency or duties. The rite must be a terrifying and occluded ritual, in the dark, involving the sublime, ecstasy, blood and pain. Imagine the experience of Mohawk kidnapped an impressed into Iroquois society, a White woman captured by Moors on the seas or a woman who is traded as a wife into a distant tribe, grok the emotions these people go through as their whole personal identity and who they are metamorphizes.
In the case of whites it would be, playing with legos, living in suburbia, and listening to Rock music.
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Seleucus
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

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GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:28 pm
Seleucus wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:36 am
Arising_uk wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:30 pmI don't think there has to be a bar at all, just a clear set of rights, duties and benefits that accrue from becoming a citizen, that and achieving a level of proficiency in the appropriate language.
Identity is too deep and mysterious for citizenship to be allowed to be a matter of a test or a criteria of proficiency or duties. The rite must be a terrifying and occluded ritual, in the dark, involving the sublime, ecstasy, blood and pain. Imagine the experience of Mohawk kidnapped an impressed into Iroquois society, a White woman captured by Moors on the seas or a woman who is traded as a wife into a distant tribe, grok the emotions these people go through as their whole personal identity and who they are metamorphizes.
In the case of whites it would be, playing with legos, living in suburbia, and listening to Rock music.
Or another line up to really get the White experience could be something like drunken ecstasy, crucifixion, whipping at the triangles, a month at the bottom of the Atlantic in a submarine, LSD, and then ten years in solitary confinement...
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Seleucus
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

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Arising_uk wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:50 am
Seleucus wrote:Which is to say the same thing. ...
Not really as language follows very clear rules.
You don't read much Halliday and Matthiessen or something? :roll:
Correct, like a religious conversion, a mystery, sublime, ecstatic. That's just what I was thinking. ...
And yet the Catholic faith itself allows revalation through Scripture?
No doubt many swoon into ecstasy and jolt in panic while saying the British oath of citizenship.... :roll:
Exactly, that's why identity transformation isn't happening, because it's being treated as matter of "clear identity" and not understood on the level of terror and impossibility of return that White slaves captured by the Moors or Mohawks kidnapped by Iroquois would have experienced. ...
You don't think escaping war, famine, persecution, etc and then trekking across two continents in nothing but your clothes facing slavery, rape, extortion, violence, etc is enough of a terror?
It doesn't appear most of the emotions and agony would actually be linked to the new family/state which appears to be the important common denominator. :roll:
Agree, Roman citizenship was essentially closed and was only possible through mystery rituals at the ancient hearth through marriage or adoption into the family.
Or just joining the Army and serving one's time.
Yeah, twenty years in the Roman army wouln't have been any kind of brutal emotional and physical test... :roll:
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

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Seleucus wrote:You don't read much Halliday and Matthiessen or something? :roll:
Can't see anything in there that says identity is all 'deep and mysterious' nor that language is not the [perfect tool for transmitting a cultural identity ?
No doubt many swoon into ecstasy and jolt in panic while saying the British oath of citizenship.... :roll:
I think you think to little of what they've had to do to get there but agree that the current process of getting to that stage and the benefits are not enough to meet the coming needs of a society that wishes to survive the economic, environmental and technological changes upon the horizon.
It doesn't appear most of the emotions and agony would actually be linked to the new family/state which appears to be the important common denominator. :roll:
It would be if we recognised them in the ceremony.
Yeah, twenty years in the Roman army wouln't have been any kind of brutal emotional and physical test... :roll:
Didn't say it wasn't, just pointing out your "only" was wrong.

As usual you are selective in what you respond to but what can you expect from a propagandist for the far-right white supremacist movement. :roll:
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Seleucus
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

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Arising_uk wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:12 pm
Seleucus wrote:You don't read much Halliday and Matthiessen or something? :roll:
Can't see anything in there that says identity is all 'deep and mysterious' nor that language is not the [perfect tool for transmitting a cultural identity ?
Nothing could delight me more than to turn this discussion through linguistics so why not go ahead and clarify what you're meaning to say about this... Let's try to keep focused on the breakdown of reason and the extreme unction connected to dissociating from old identities and coming to new...
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

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Sure but before we do how about answering this, "Still not hearing from you about any restrictions you'd place on the white people who wish to adopt, so you'd be fine with the liberal lefties adopting, muslims, gays, etc from other races, etc?"
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Seleucus
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

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Arising_uk wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:06 pm Sure but before we do how about answering this, "Still not hearing from you about any restrictions you'd place on the white people who wish to adopt, so you'd be fine with the liberal lefties adopting, muslims, gays, etc from other races, etc?"
Didn't know this question was so important to you? Yes, I will argue that any citizen in good standing should be entitled to adopt an orphan of that country.
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

Post by Seleucus »

Political correctness isn't hypocritical, it's open war against the core.
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

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GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:25 pm
-1- wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:24 am
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:13 am Depends. Read my Metal Gear story, in the Aesthetics section.
Interesting story. I recommend it as required reading for all other users on this forum.
Thankyou. Sadly, some users don't seem to appreciate it.
that ought not to discourage you. Every writer's every piece is hated by some critic. Negative criticism is a force in the literary universe, that can't be avoided, and must be learned how to deal with, therefore.
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie »

-1- wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:41 am
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:25 pm
-1- wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:24 am

Interesting story. I recommend it as required reading for all other users on this forum.
Thankyou. Sadly, some users don't seem to appreciate it.
that ought not to discourage you. Every writer's every piece is hated by some critic. Negative criticism is a force in the literary universe, that can't be avoided, and must be learned how to deal with, therefore.
But negative criticism isn't constructive, nothing I can gain from it.
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

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GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:56 am
-1- wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:41 am
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:25 pm

Thankyou. Sadly, some users don't seem to appreciate it.
that ought not to discourage you. Every writer's every piece is hated by some critic. Negative criticism is a force in the literary universe, that can't be avoided, and must be learned how to deal with, therefore.
But negative criticism isn't constructive, nothing I can gain from it.
Well, emotionally, no. It is negative reinforcement. It saps your creative juices.

But I listened to a lot of negative criticism, and the critics were right 88% of the time. If someone says "this is a piece of crap", then that critic is crap. But if a critic says to me, "your sentences are alike... they each have the same structure, it drove me bonkers after a while", then I know how to improve, and when another critic says "show, don't tell," that's another famous piece of advice I now follow.
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