Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

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artisticsolution
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Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

Post by artisticsolution »

This is what I hear over and over in my country. "They don't like you" "They are taking our Jobs" "They Bring crime"

All of the above is simply wrong. I don't get this way of thinking at all. Humanity will prevail. You are 'They'.

There is nothing you can do to stop the natural order of how things progress...and I don't know why you'd even try...

What's wrong with saying 'us' anyway? Please, someone enlighten me cause I just don't get it.
thedoc
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

Post by thedoc »

Later generations are always wary of new generations coming in, it has happened in the past and will continue to happen, and that is OK. There is one difference, in the past most wanted to come in and be part of what already exists, Now there seem to be more that want to come in and destroy what is here and establish the way it was where they left. Perhaps they are a vocal minority but they can have a very large effect if they are not countered.
artisticsolution
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

Post by artisticsolution »

thedoc wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:54 pm Later generations are always wary of new generations coming in, it has happened in the past and will continue to happen, and that is OK. There is one difference, in the past most wanted to come in and be part of what already exists, Now there seem to be more that want to come in and destroy what is here and establish the way it was where they left. Perhaps they are a vocal minority but they can have a very large effect if they are not countered.
But we are all God's children...correct? And if its Gods plan then who are we to go against God? And would things be any different than they are now? Parents wouls still tuck their kids in bed at night, people would still murder each other, people would still build and love and control...and life would go on.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

.





.....................................................................We are a godless people...





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artisticsolution
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

Post by artisticsolution »

Says you...and i got a shit bag to prove it.
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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie »

I'm not a racist, thus I have no problem with Arabs. What I have a problem with is Islam.

Atheist arabs should be allowed in, but no muslims.

Now the problem with Mexicans is that they work for low wages, overall messing up the economy because they don't have enough self-esteem.
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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck »

As the culture and belief surrounding it, I actually do have a problem with Islam. I don't have a problem with mexicans, but I do have a problem with illegal immigration. My main impression is that it saps away many opportunities from the people who actually live in this nation, and gives them to people who, in many ways - leech off the system. It's not just about winning the 'culture war' or maintaining a clean system, though. I mainly just don't believe it's our job to aid the troubled affairs of other countries.
artisticsolution wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:02 pmAll of the above is simply wrong. I don't get this way of thinking at all. Humanity will prevail.
Way to provide some hard sources to show that. I guess it's just so "simply wrong" you don't even need to.

As far as whether humanity will "prevail", I think that's a bit ambiguous. The question is "at what cost"?
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Bloody spoilt brat moronic yanks. There are so few muslims in the US that most of you have probably never even talked to one or passed one in the street. Idiots. Y'all don't mind killing them though. No sirree.
artisticsolution
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:27 am As the culture and belief surrounding it, I actually do have a problem with Islam. I don't have a problem with mexicans, but I do have a problem with illegal immigration. My main impression is that it saps away many opportunities from the people who actually live in this nation, and gives them to people who, in many ways - leech off the system. It's not just about winning the 'culture war' or maintaining a clean system, though. I mainly just don't believe it's our job to aid the troubled affairs of other countries.
artisticsolution wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:02 pmAll of the above is simply wrong. I don't get this way of thinking at all. Humanity will prevail.
Way to provide some hard sources to show that. I guess it's just so "simply wrong" you don't even need to.

As far as whether humanity will "prevail", I think that's a bit ambiguous. The question is "at what cost"?
Well, I think veggie sums it up pretty well here:

"Bloody spoilt brat moronic yanks. There are so few muslims in the US that most of you have probably never even talked to one or passed one in the street. Idiots. Y'all don't mind killing them though. No sirree."

Here's the thing, Sir sister...when I think of the 'wrongness' or 'rightness' of a situation, the only way I have of clearing the clutter (i.e. the influence of others irrational prejudice be it my country's leaders or my neighbor, family, etc.) is to imagine a world where I am the person in the other situation and what reasons I might have for "breaking the law" and even going farther and thinking if that law was fair and just.

I am not one to go along with society just because there is a consensus. Simply because in times of emergency (or not), even countries can do the wrong thing, i.e. go against their own rules.

That being said, it seems to me there is alot of hysteria in the US about illegal immigrants. Our prejudices have made us stupid. Our desire to punish have made us blind. Our cold hearts have made us immoral.

If anyone here, tells me that they think children, who have been born in the US by illegal immigrants or brought here by II, should be deported, I would say that is simply wrong. For the obvious reasons that it is cruel to send someone to another country that has never known the language or culture and to plop them down defenseless! Now, I dare you to imagine a country that did that to your own children and tell me if you would think it was right?

In no circumstances is that right. If you believe it is then you are perverse and with out hope.

Now, as for illegal immigrant who came here as adults. The wrongness of their action does not mean a country should go into debt and ruin it's economy just to punish some of breaking some law made by society. There is a higher order than man's self serving interests. This world belongs to all of us. That is the "right" way things should be.

John Boenher once said that if we "do the right thing, the right thing will happen." Too bad he didn't understand what the "right thing" was. The right thing ALWAYS benefits mankind. The right thing is humane. If there is any doubt, let that ALWAYS be the starting point. So if we say, "it is not right" that immigrants have been here for decades and established lives here while we said nothing and did nothing, only to decades later get stirred into a frenzy by their presence, and to want retribution so badly we are willing to devastate financially not only ourselves but an entire group of people seeking a better life, then we can clearly see our 'wrongness'.

Veggie is right about one thing...American's are spoiled. We don't think there is a place on Earth that is not rightfully ours. Oh sure...most will follow the rules and get a visa and passport if needed...but that's just a formality. I think most travel to other countries thinking it is there God given right. Like, the other countries are there for them as a vacation destination. I've even heard some say nonchalantly, "Ya know...we really should take over Mexico, they have tons of resources we could use." As if, it is the right thing to do. American's see the world as their playground.

In no circumstances is that right. If you believe it is then you are perverse and with out hope.
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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck »

artisticsolution wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:08 pmWell, I think veggie sums it up pretty well here:
This, she did not do. Besides the fact that I never even used the word 'muslim', but was referring to Islam as an ideology - it's clear what she was trying to do. She's trying to make an equivocation between anyone who might have a concern over the tenets of Islam, and a racial bias we all agree is based on actual ignorance. So pretty much one of the stereotypical arguments used by the more progressive liberals at an attempt to discourage any real discussion, by attributing ill intentions to the very mentality that's trying to sift through the actual ill intentions.
(i.e. the influence of others irrational prejudice be it my country's leaders or my neighbor, family, etc.)
I think it's pretty irrational to be so inclined call it an irrational prejudice, when we're talking about something like a religion. I was always under the impression that's it's okay to dislike others if it's something tangible like what they're doing, or you disagree with them on something morally critical. Doesn't religion determine things like that, and so much more?

I'm sure that there are people who genuinely have a hatred of Arabic people, and interchangeably consider them 'muslim', and all that without really knowing how to differentiate between a race and religion - and then there are just racists in general - so if we're talking about something like that, I would agree that is an irrational prejudice. The problem is, you're partially guilty of this mentality that makes racism so toxic, because you've made a thread about "mexicans/muslims" failing to separate them accordingly. One of them is a race, the other is a religion.
Here's the thing, Sir sister...when I think of the 'wrongness' or 'rightness' of a situation, the only way I have of clearing the clutter (i.e. the influence of others irrational prejudice be it my country's leaders or my neighbor, family, etc.) is to imagine a world where I am the person in the other situation and what reasons I might have for "breaking the law" and even going farther and thinking if that law was fair and just.
I think if we tried to live by a principle of absolute empathy in the way that you suggest, a lot of things would be different in our lives. There needs to be a counter balance in practically thinking about the negative consequences. I have no problem saying that a countries first priority should be its citizens over the people outside of it, but I think it's also about maintaining the country that leads to so many people wanting to immigrate. Putting different cultures aside, are you convinced that there aren't any negatives to letting more immigrants in?
If anyone here, tells me that they think children, who have been born in the US by illegal immigrants or brought here by II, should be deported, I would say that is simply wrong. For the obvious reasons that it is cruel to send someone to another country that has never known the language or culture and to plop them down defenseless! Now, I dare you to imagine a country that did that to your own children and tell me if you would think it was right?
I don't know exactly where I would draw the line. I'm inclined to agree with you on the current state of the law which an immigrant's children become legal citizens, but ironically I think it's also a very large portion of the issue in immigration - it's exponential population growth because immigrates tend to have more children.
In no circumstances is that right. If you believe it is then you are perverse and with out hope.
I think much of this mentality is from putting too much weight and fault on america, rather than the hell-hold country they're being sent back to. I mean, you mention the language thing, which is a fine point and pretty unavoidable. But there are some people who try to make this argument that America is in the wrong for aiming to deport many of these people back to their horrible countries, and I think that's just an thinly-veiled attempt to reflect where the moral responsibility actually lies - which is their hell-hold countries. It's not our fault that many mexican deportees will end up being sent to violent Mexican cities, to possibly face an even harsh persecution. That moral onus is on the mexican government that isn't doing anything about their living conditions. Why should we be the ones to blame for that, when we're not even doing the thing we're being blamed for?
Now, as for illegal immigrant who came here as adults. The wrongness of their action does not mean a country should go into debt and ruin it's economy just to punish some of breaking some law made by society. There is a higher order than man's self serving interests. This world belongs to all of us. That is the "right" way things should be.
I'm under the opposite impression. I think illegal immigration is more detrimental to the economy, especially since companies actually have a personal incentive to hire them, as it stands right now.

Well, I just don't blankly think illegal immigration is a problem because it's against the law, I think it's against the law for its problems.
John Boenher once said that if we "do the right thing, the right thing will happen." Too bad he didn't understand what the "right thing" was. The right thing ALWAYS benefits mankind. The right thing is humane. If there is any doubt, let that ALWAYS be the starting point. So if we say, "it is not right" that immigrants have been here for decades and established lives here while we said nothing and did nothing, only to decades later get stirred into a frenzy by their presence, and to want retribution so badly we are willing to devastate financially not only ourselves but an entire group of people seeking a better life, then we can clearly see our 'wrongness'.
I would consider myself an utilitarian on the topic of morality, so I can definitely relate to what you're saying, my utilitarianism just isn't as 1-dimensional as the early philosophers were. My position on illegal immigration ultimately is about whats best for humanity. I think letting our society degrade to the state of what many of these people are fleeing from, for the sake of what seems to be the most immediate way to help people, is something to consider.
Veggie is right about one thing...American's are spoiled. We don't think there is a place on Earth that is not rightfully ours.
I've noticed the people on this forum have a way of generalizing 'Americans', that people would more than likely be quick to call racist or xenophobic if it was said about most other groups of people or cultures from a different nation. "The Swedes are spoiled"; "The Germans just think everything belongs to them"; It would be one thing if we were talking about just their governments, and not the people residing inside them, but it doesn't seem we are. I don't know, it's just a thought I've had.
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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie »

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:27 am As the culture and belief surrounding it, I actually do have a problem with Islam. I don't have a problem with mexicans, but I do have a problem with illegal immigration. My main impression is that it saps away many opportunities from the people who actually live in this nation, and gives them to people who, in many ways - leech off the system. It's not just about winning the 'culture war' or maintaining a clean system, though. I mainly just don't believe it's our job to aid the troubled affairs of other countries.
artisticsolution wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:02 pmAll of the above is simply wrong. I don't get this way of thinking at all. Humanity will prevail.
Way to provide some hard sources to show that. I guess it's just so "simply wrong" you don't even need to.

As far as whether humanity will "prevail", I think that's a bit ambiguous. The question is "at what cost"?
The problem with mexicans is that they litterally do not leech off the system. They accept wages way below the minimum. And this basically f's up the entire economy for people who want to have a decent life and decent wages.
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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck »

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:11 am
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:27 am As the culture and belief surrounding it, I actually do have a problem with Islam. I don't have a problem with mexicans, but I do have a problem with illegal immigration. My main impression is that it saps away many opportunities from the people who actually live in this nation, and gives them to people who, in many ways - leech off the system. It's not just about winning the 'culture war' or maintaining a clean system, though. I mainly just don't believe it's our job to aid the troubled affairs of other countries.
artisticsolution wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:02 pmAll of the above is simply wrong. I don't get this way of thinking at all. Humanity will prevail.
Way to provide some hard sources to show that. I guess it's just so "simply wrong" you don't even need to.

As far as whether humanity will "prevail", I think that's a bit ambiguous. The question is "at what cost"?
The problem with mexicans is that they litterally do not leech off the system. They accept wages way below the minimum. And this basically f's up the entire economy for people who want to have a decent life and decent wages.
In that specific regard, I honestly can't say. While I know it's a pretty common thing to say that they're generally not harmful to the economy because they tend to accept work at a lower wage, I haven't really looked into that claim myself. From what I understand, it doesn't consider that they also increase welfare dependency while not paying as much in tax.
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

Post by davidm »

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:51 pm I'm not a racist ...
:lol:
...thus I have no problem with Arabs.
:?
What I have a problem with is Islam.
:?
Atheist arabs should be allowed in, but no muslims.
:lol:
Now the problem with Mexicans is that they work for low wages, overall messing up the economy because they don't have enough self-esteem.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

God ... does anyone feel the need to explain to this troll exactly how stupid this is?
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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie »

davidm wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:39 am
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:51 pm I'm not a racist ...
:lol:
...thus I have no problem with Arabs.
:?
What I have a problem with is Islam.
:?
Atheist arabs should be allowed in, but no muslims.
:lol:
Now the problem with Mexicans is that they work for low wages, overall messing up the economy because they don't have enough self-esteem.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

God ... does anyone feel the need to explain to this troll exactly how stupid this is?
Stop and think about how stupid a world ran by Muslims will be, then get back to me on that.
FlashDangerpants
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Re: Muslims/Mexicans Are Taking Over

Post by FlashDangerpants »

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:55 am
davidm wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:39 am God ... does anyone feel the need to explain to this troll exactly how stupid this is?
Stop and think about how stupid a world ran by Muslims will be, then get back to me on that.
You see Trixie, the problem here is that you are lumping a diverse group of people - more than a billion of them I believe - into a monolithic entity for the express purpose of marking that entire broad category of persons as your inferiors. You probably really don't think of yourself as a racist, but you exhibit identical levels of broad and nasty prejudice, so you're only fooling yourself.

Your other comments about Mexicans bidding down wages are criminally ignorant. For a start this same mean spirited shit was written of the Irish not so long ago, and the Germans before them, and the jews too. There's a well established pattern with first generation immigrants in most of the developed world countries*. The low skilled are marginalised and pushed to the fringes of the economy where they work jobs that natives don't want to do, in many cases ones which simply will not get done without them. Picking fruit, cleaning toilets, and so on. The well educated who are able to compete for good jobs will quickly find their true market value and so do little to deflate wages. Furthermore, immigrant populations in almost all cases start their own businesses at a higher rate than natives and ultimately boost the economies of their host nations and create jobs in numbers which more than offset the impacts you describe.


* This offer excludes a couple of countries in Scandinavia where labour standards which prevent the creation of low wage entry level jobs for people who don't speak the language very well effectively lock immigrants out of the jobs market entirely for so long that by the time they have the language skills to get a job they no longer have valid skills or recent experience. Therefore immigrants in these countries do not integrate at the rate they do in Britain or Germany or America.
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