Race versus culture

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davidm
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by davidm » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:41 pm

Seleucus wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:24 pm
Belinda wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:24 pm
Seleucus, your interpretation of the life of Jesus is incorrect. He was not a wimp but came to bring a sword. In defence of the poor and downtrodden. Unlike Trump who cares not at all for the poor and downtrodden, except insofar as they vote for him.

As for Fanon, the alienation from their traditional structures which colonists(French particularly) wrought upon colonised peoples was akin to violence, (NB Algeria)and economic gain for the colonists was often combined with a smell of holiness on the part of the colonists.Please see Marie Perimbam.

Of course there is always an elite in any society.
Unfortunately I can't find much from Marie Perimbam online, the good socialist has everything locked down behind pay walls.

I believe we have already gone over colonization? When France left Algeria, the Muslims did not have the sophistication to maintain an advanced state and it collapsed into what we could call the 3rd Word Dark Age. The peace the French maintained broke and more than a decade of civil war ensued.
Complete garbage, pure lies. Civil war did NOT break out in Algeria after the French left -- it broke out in 1991, 30 years after the French left. Lots of "white" nations have had civil wars -- did you not know this?

You know NOTHING of Algeria's storied history, or the storied history of Islam, the Middle East and Arab nations in general -- Islam and Arab nations were the dominant power in the region a thousand years ago, while white Europe was going through the Dark Ages.

Truly contemptible are so many of the people who are inexplicably allowed to peddle their vicious garbage at a philosophy forum.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Arising_uk » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:14 am

davidm wrote:...
Complete garbage, pure lies. Civil war did NOT break out in Algeria after the French left -- it broke out in 1991, 30 years after the French left. Lots of "white" nations have had civil wars -- did you not know this? ...
And ironically enough it was against jihadi Islamists, something I'd have thought Seleucus would have supported rather than making it a minus but then he is just a propagandist for the far-right and a racialist.
Truly contemptible are so many of the people who are inexplicably allowed to peddle their vicious garbage at a philosophy forum.
The point is that these views are around and you can either let them see the light and be challenged, as you have, or you let them fester in the dark and gain credence is my view on how a philosophy forum should work.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Arising_uk » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:11 am

Belinda wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:50 pm
The ethic of Jesus is socialist.
That really depends upon what sort of Christian sect you follow I think.

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Seleucus
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:27 am

davidm wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:41 pm
Complete garbage, pure lies. ...

You know NOTHING of Algeria's storied history, or the storied history of Islam, the Middle East and Arab nations in general -- Islam and Arab nations were the dominant power in the region a thousand years ago, while white Europe was going through the Dark Ages.

Truly contemptible ... their vicious garbage at a philosophy forum.
Personal attacks...
Arising_uk wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:14 am
he is just a propagandist for ...
More personal attacks...

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Arising_uk
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Arising_uk » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:41 am

Seleucus wrote:
Arising_uk wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:14 am
he is just a propagandist for ...
More personal attacks...
No no, an observation or are you saying you're not re-posting and promoting far-right propaganda?

A personal attack would be something like I think you're a slimy little wanker but I don't do that sort of stuff.

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Seleucus
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:43 am

Belinda wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:50 pm
The ethic of Jesus is socialist.
It isn't that hard to see Jesus as the anti-Hero, he flatly negates the center value of the ancients, ἔγνωκας ἀνδρὸς ἀρετὴν εἶναι νικᾶν τοὺς μὲν φίλους εὖ ποιοῦντα, τοὺς δ᾽ ἐχθροὺς κακῶς (Memorabilia 2.6.35, link) at Matthew 5:44 or Luke 6:27. What is interesting however is in Life of Jesus where Renan has Jesus as trans-racial, someone who crossed the boundary from Semitic to Aryan spirituality. There would be a few ways of looking at this: one might be that this really was not Jesus but instead how the Europeans had to see him: through the lens of European pagan values; or another angle might be to see Jesus as expressing the sophia perennis: Traditionalist non-dualism. But one way or another, it seems the leftists is only the embryonic or juvenile form of a rightist: transforming itself as soon as any core it had opposed is destroyed and becoming the new core: Fanon died before he saw his prediction come true after the French were expelled from Algeria, today Blacks, like Fanon was, are the new lumpenproletariat in Algeria: http://africasacountry.com/2017/08/algerias-black-fear/
Last edited by Seleucus on Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Seleucus
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:43 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:41 am
Seleucus wrote:
Arising_uk wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:14 am
he is just a propagandist for ...
More personal attacks...
No no, an observation or are you saying you're not re-posting and promoting far-right propaganda?

A personal attack would be something like I think you're a slimy little wanker but I don't do that sort of stuff.
I've reported this reply as off-topic.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Arising_uk » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:47 am

Seleucus wrote:I've reported this reply as off-topic.
But it's a reply to your comment about me making a personal attack when I hadn't and asking you if you deny that you are re-posting and promoting far-right wing propaganda? As such, lots of luck. :lol:

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Seleucus
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:53 am

For those who may be interested in the topic of how and why islamic civilization turned the Middle-East from the center of the world and the apotheosis of civilization into a garbage dump, the fifth and final episode of the very excellent series History of Islam has just been released. The same thesis I have also argued for is presented, namely that Greek culture was rejected around the turn of the millennium in favor of Quranic dogmatism leading to a long decline. And importantly, this collapse while having external manifestations, such as Napoleon's conquest of Egypt, was fundamentally an internal rot: there was something that had gone wrong with the pscyhe of the people. This sort of idealist approach to history should be appreciated as very different from the capitalist-communist materialistic perspective.

https://youtu.be/FHBWy2umiso

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Arising_uk
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Arising_uk » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:55 am

Wow! You definitely haven't read Spengler even tho' you like to source him.

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Seleucus
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:10 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:55 am
Wow! You definitely haven't read Spengler even tho' you like to source him.
Meaning?

I just watched this talk, Oswald Spengler, The decline of the West and Islamic State, https://youtu.be/i9pjlgMbLIY

Clearly some points I've made are Spenglarian: European Christianity as fundamentally European despite its apparent origins in the Middle East, a cleavage between the old Heroic culture and the new modern culture of the West, or the spread of Islam into a space where a common Semitic culture already existed. On-the-other-hand, Spengler would have it that the Heroic culture has already come and gone so Donald Trump can't be a true hero as he seems to be?

Belinda
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Belinda » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:51 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:11 am
Belinda wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:50 pm
The ethic of Jesus is socialist.
That really depends upon what sort of Christian sect you follow I think.
I'm not religious. The only alternatives that I know of to Jesus 'socialist' teaching are that Jesus supported the rich Jews and Romans, or that Jesus was punitively inclined and uninterested in people's suffering

Belinda
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Belinda » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:05 am

Seleucus wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:53 am
For those who may be interested in the topic of how and why islamic civilization turned the Middle-East from the center of the world and the apotheosis of civilization into a garbage dump, the fifth and final episode of the very excellent series History of Islam has just been released. The same thesis I have also argued for is presented, namely that Greek culture was rejected around the turn of the millennium in favor of Quranic dogmatism leading to a long decline. And importantly, this collapse while having external manifestations, such as Napoleon's conquest of Egypt, was fundamentally an internal rot: there was something that had gone wrong with the pscyhe of the people. This sort of idealist approach to history should be appreciated as very different from the capitalist-communist materialistic perspective.

https://youtu.be/FHBWy2umiso
But you don't know what constitutes good history -writing . True, there has to be the element of interpretation, but scientifically rigorous testimony is basic. Your sources are biased towards propaganda. Your own posts are full of posh quotations sometimes in Greek but this is stage scenery. People like you actually kill and murder Muslims perhaps not yourself with your own smooth young hands, Seleucus, but your rhetoric might inspire others .

Belinda
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Belinda » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:20 am

Seleucus wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:10 am
Arising_uk wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:55 am
Wow! You definitely haven't read Spengler even tho' you like to source him.
Meaning?

I just watched this talk, Oswald Spengler, The decline of the West and Islamic State, https://youtu.be/i9pjlgMbLIY

Clearly some points I've made are Spenglarian: European Christianity as fundamentally European despite its apparent origins in the Middle East, a cleavage between the old Heroic culture and the new modern culture of the West, or the spread of Islam into a space where a common Semitic culture already existed. On-the-other-hand, Spengler would have it that the Heroic culture has already come and gone so Donald Trump can't be a true hero as he seems to be?
All societies harbour folk tales of heroes. Times and places in man's past when heroes were regarded with religious awe a polarised focus for hopes for future safety and prosperity. In the olden days folk heroes were elevated in national consciousness by specialised story tellers. Now, heroes themselves control powerful publicity machines and deal in lies that surpass any religious superstitions.

dorothea
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by dorothea » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:32 pm

I don't think you need anything very sophisticated to explain the power and spread of Islam. Mohammed was, like Jesus, a Jew with a belief in his own special place in God's heart. As the earlier bits of the Koran show, he tried to persuade other Jews to follow him. He failed and resorted to compulsion and a combination of stick and carrot. Thomas Aquinas knew more about Islam than anyone alive today, Muslim or no, and he attributed Islam's success to its appeal to violent and concupiscent men. Then as now, the same applies. Islamic State was in no material way different from much that goes on openly or under wraps in the 50 odd states that are Muslim ruled. The mystery, to me, is why the Muslims who live in the West and enjoy liberty and tolerance, (despite, in the UK, their co-religionists having murdered 150 British people since 2000) don't rise up against the repressive regimes that govern in their name. Isn't that what brave folks did when Franco began his war against civilisation in Christian civilisation's name. (By way of balance, why are no Catholics not raging against the bestial Catholic regime in El Salvador - where raped teenagers are jailed for life if the have a miscarriage?)

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