Re: Race versus culture
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:23 am
For the discussion of all things philosophical, especially articles in the magazine Philosophy Now.
He was a "Blue-Eyed Barbarian" who came from the West. That's the tradition. He was a Central Asian Aryan from somewhere between the Caspian Sea and Gansu Province.
Trust me, I can appreciate your surprise, it's obvious from a little thought and reading, but of course it sort of upsets our Orientalist mental schema a bit when it's put point blank: Buddhism is a Western and Indo-European religion and Bodhidharma who founded Zen was a blue eyed White man.
Maybe to you and others for whom race is important.
I'm in a mixed race marriage. Happily married. I think people who are in mixed race marriages like myself understand race much more accutely and have a lot more respect for it than people who live in racially homogeneous spaces. Almost everyone I know who is in a mixed race marriage or who is a long term ex-pat would be labeled "racist". It is an ironic phenomena for sure.Greta wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:18 amMaybe to you and others for whom race is important.
However, those who marry those of other races don't seem to have your yearning to be amongst their own kind.
Can you spell out the significance of this guy. I looked him up on Wiki, he was in Fanny and Alexander? Sublime movie, I'll never forget the line, "I am horribly awake!". But not sure your point here....It's about diversity, human/natural difference, Seleucus (do you know Gustav Bjornstrand by any chance?). Some love diversity, some hate it, and most are in the middle.
I've heard it said but it just dawned on me literately the other day that it is the upper classes who maintain the cultural traditions the longest, look at the Greek kings of Egypt who outlasted the Greek middle class in keeping their Greekness for example. Generally the upper class is the ethno-linguistic nucleus of a civilization, they are the prime culture bearers.Also, remember that the world is increasingly organising itself according to class rather than culture
This phenomena of living among other races and become more racist seems to be quite common, I notice a video on it here,
Cherry picking. My intent was irony. 'En masse'. Why would you expect an indigenous people to instantly adapt to, and understand, a completely alien culture? That hardly makes them inferior. What would you do?Seleucus wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:41 amThe jury has to be still out on this. Myself, I can imagine that culture is sufficient to explain the differences between races. But we have to grant that no scientific control-group research has been done on the psychology of whole races. It seems pretty clear there are temperamental differences between dog breeds. Are Indians filthy because they have not been taught to feel disgust at the sight of rot and rubbish, or is the psychological propensity, or lack there of, genetically controlled? Are Black Americans performing so poorly in schools because of something like a culture of poverty, or because of genetic differences? Since large scale experiments on whole societies is impossible, and race and culture tend to be almost always co-joined, there isn't likely to be an answer coming anytime soon.
One possible clue might come from a law suit in Canada recently, native Indians were adopted in mass by non-Red Indian parents over the past decades, if those adopted Indians have been far more successful in society in terms of education, rate of suicide, rate of drug addiction, happiness rating and so on, that kind of "twin study" might give some clues? But, it couldn't be definitive given the many complex variables. The jury is always going to be out on this question of the material inferiority and superiority of races.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... s-children
It's true what Greta said. Unfortunately, the international elite class contains baddies as well as goodies. It contains Donald Trump who is noted for his bad taste in so many spheres of life. Unfortunately Seleucus is quite wrong that the ruling elites are what he says; now that lesser men are free they are also culture-bearers. Seleucus, your preference for the linguistic habits of the upper classes is common snobbery with no foundation in socio-linguistics. Obviously you don't know about the language of Shakespeare, or Robert Burns.(Greta had written)Also, remember that the world is increasingly organising itself according to class rather than culture
(Seleucus replied):I've heard it said but it just dawned on me literately the other day that it is the upper classes who maintain the cultural traditions the longest, look at the Greek kings of Egypt who outlasted the Greek middle class in keeping their Greekness for example. Generally the upper class is the ethno-linguistic nucleus of a civilization, they are the prime culture bearers.
You have obviously far more experience with Muslims'company than I have. Even I however have the impression that Muslims in general are on the defensive and have become, or remained, defiantly tribal. By "tribal " I mean sentimentally attached to the idol of natal or adopted ethnicity. Perhaps Muslims from 'village' origins are more inclined to be traditionally tribal in their world views. It would be interesting if some anthropologist had studied the causes of tribalism and traditional attachments among Muslims. I'd make a guess that Islam is not the cause of Muslims' narrowly tribal view of others. A metaphysical (ontological) God is common to all the western religions, and legitimates intertribal warfare.A woman tells me literally yesterday about her plan to open a bakery and only hire Muslims. It's quite common since Islam is a gang. Obviously Muslims have this attitude of superiority too, and a belief in the house of Islam versus the kafir.
And it never can be done - because there are no races.
First, there is no race; 'Indians'.It seems pretty clear there are temperamental differences between dog breeds. Are Indians filthy because they have not been taught to feel disgust at the sight of rot and rubbish, or is the psychological propensity, or lack there of, genetically controlled?
I see. I meant that calling ethnic differences "racial" differences gives a spurious biological respectability to his hostility to outsiders.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:31 pmWhat difference does it make? So he doesn't like people who are cosmetically different from him. Does it really make any difference WHAT he calls them? Is anyone but a biologist thinking of biology when they think 'race'? I suppose the medical world is being racist when it talks about certain 'cosmetically differing' groups of people being susceptible to cerain illnesses. It's all really beyond pathetic.
Which shows that humans are one species then?Seleucus wrote:Race certainly exists and it is something worth having pride in. The product of millions of years of beautiful and sublime life and struggle. It is worth understanding the origins and history or your race be you White, Austronesian, Korean, Arab or what have you. There are a lot of problems comparing languages and genetic systems, languages easily co-mingle but dogs and zebras do not blend. ...
'Semitic' race? You do like to slip stuff in don't you.Just as we can speak or Arabic or English or Korean, much the same we can speak of White, Oriental and Semitic races. ...
For sure but is Obama not white then?There certainly is some fuzziness and matters of power in how the definitions are created, but just as sure as you can understand what I'm typing, no one will mistake me for a Capoid or a Negrito.
We, our Scottish family, were a forces family, in the 60's. We often met foreign nationals, common country people in agricultural Andalucia, who were all welcoming and nice to be with. This, to the extent that the newspaper from home was so full of crime and unrest that I almost dreaded going home to Britain. Not just the people I met but also the terrain and vegetation of Andalucia felt like home.I appreciate being among my people. I appreciate being among people I can understand, who share common values and dreams. The land, the culture and the people are a symbiotic entity. Everyone refugee, everyone in exile, everyone stationed with the military or working abroad understands this at a very bodily and emotional level.