Race versus culture

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Arising_uk
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Arising_uk »

Belinda wrote:... am not in this conversation simply to quarrel with Seleucus.
Neither am I. I'm here to oppose what he says as I think it detrimental to the survival of my nation as a culture and more importantly as a civilization.
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Re: Race versus culture

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Belinda wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:51 pmEvery gun or tank made directly robs the poor of medicine or education.
Those guns and tanks prevent your country from being taken from you, your cities from being leveled, and your friends and family from becoming refugees.
You have an eccentric idea of what 'nationalism' means.
I think this short video gives a very clear perspective on what internationalist globalism means, https://youtu.be/4Oe12HhJybY
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Re: Race versus culture

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Arising_uk wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:57 pmI'm here to oppose what he says as I think it detrimental to the survival of my nation as a culture and more importantly as a civilization.
Oh yeah. It's pretty obvious how balkanizing your country, turning your people into a minority in their own land and relinquishing political control hostile aliens is going to save your culture and civilization... :roll:
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus »

Arising_uk wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:23 pm
Seleucus wrote:The global elite are an internationalist cabal. ...
So what are Putin, Trump, Modi, et al, if not these elites?
Three people of our time most likely to be able save us from the global elite.
p.s.
What's the bottle-blond got to do with anything?
Is that your anti-White racist term for fair complexioned people?
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus »

Arising_uk wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:37 pm
Seleucus wrote:Other shibboleths might do almost as well, maybe eating with a fork? This is a lot more technical but amounts to just about the same thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_sound_laws ...
All it says is that at sometime in the past a lot of people spoke a common language. If you go further back you'll find that they also spoke another one.
Since race, language, culture and spiritual tradition tend to be bundled, we can track any one if we wish to be able to identify our kin peoples. We could look for racial qualities like facial phenotypes and complexion, or we could look at cultural items like eating with a fork, or we could look at a true shibboleth like the Indo-European sound laws: just as essentially all Oriental peoples cannot make either th sound, certain sounds such as the consonant blends like /st/or /ks/essentially only occur in Indo-European languages. Another example would be grammatical gender which only appears in the languages of Caucasian peoples.
That's all? So what stronger correlation could you possibly ask for than that dispersals of populations and distributions of languages go together?
But no causation eh! As all that is being said is that people move around and language spreads, well duh!
So what? LOL. You probably don't even remember why you've been trying to hoist this strawman for months.
Or, to identify your own people if you are a Westerner, an amazing culture even if it has flaws, you could use a marker like use of the fork ...
So why don't you use the fork then?
Probably because its a relatively trivial thing compared with the depth and awesomeness of language, race and spirituality.
the simple fact is 3rd World people do not have conditioning that is required to do what it takes to make a modern state happen, ...
'3rd world people' and there was me thinking you'd actually read Spengler. They don't have to make a modern state happen over here, just sign-up to it.
I honestly haven't read much Spengler. Be that as it may, 3rd world people iterate 3rd would countries due to the lack of integrated schema that support modern states. If you get enough 3rd Worlders in your country you will get of course a 3rd World country.
we all love our identities and don't want to give them up, not in a million years -- almost literally, so if you let a gajillion Africans and Asians into your country, then pretty soon you're not gonna have a nice modern country anymore, you're gonna have a 3rd World garbage dump county. That's not racism, that's simple fact. ...
Good job we're not letting a gajillion in then but given the effects of climate change the human race is going to be moving about in very large numbers pretty soon so my take for my country is to have a system that can deal with such issues.
Nice red herring with the climate change.

You can pivot all day long but the fact is: 3rd world people iterate 3rd would countries due to the lack of integrated schema that support modern states. If you get enough 3rd Worlders in your country you will get of course a 3rd World country. Psychologies are highly resistant to change, only great pain and great amounts of time can effect it.
She's saying that there are Anglo-Saxon laws and housing styles and psychological structures found: and also Anglo-Saxon genetic markers. Because genetics and culture are tightly correlated. ...
There is no causation so far discovered to link genetics to such things.
So what? Who ever in all these months of discussion said it was. You're strawmanning.
What psychological structures? You mean Christianity that bonded the Angle and the Saxon in the face of the Dane?
Closely related Germanic families of Indo-European peoples.
Another interesting point to note is: Why did the English accept the culture of the Anglo-Saxon invaders, but the Iberians never accepted the culture of the Moslem invaders. ...
But they didn't did they, they were driven to the highlands.
No. That's the old and wrong view.

Modern linguistics, archeology and genetics demonstrate that the people of England were already Germanic, so the Anglo-Saxon invasion was like a welcome home party, not a hostile invasion:

"Contrary to narratives suggesting large-scale displacement of the Britons by Anglo-Saxon invaders..."
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35344663

"The other myth I was taught at school, one which persists to this day, is that the English are almost all descended from 5th-century invaders, the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, from the Danish peninsula, who wiped out the indigenous Celtic population of England. ... The tribes of England south of the Thames and along the south coast during Caesar’s time all had Belgic names or affiliations. Caesar tells us that these large intrusive settlements had replaced an earlier British population..."
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... t-its-dna/

And let's not get distracted from the point which is that Iberia vomited out the Muslim invaders because they were foreign bodies, unlike pre-Roman Germanic peoples of England who integrated with the Anglo-Saxons who were of similar language, culture and spiritual tradition. Which is who Greeks, Irish and Germans could all integrate in the Americas: they are closely related peoples, where as, Africans and Turks are not integrating after generations.
A likely reason is difference, modern thinking is that the pre-Roman English were not Celts but Germanic people who had migrated in from around the area of what is today Belgium. ...
Well only likely by white-supremacist revisionists.
You're simply wrong and lost in an ideological delusion.

Modern linguistics, archeology and genetics demonstrate that the people of England were already Germanic, so the Anglo-Saxon invasion was like a welcome home party, not a hostile invasion:

"Contrary to narratives suggesting large-scale displacement of the Britons by Anglo-Saxon invaders..."
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35344663

"The other myth I was taught at school, one which persists to this day, is that the English are almost all descended from 5th-century invaders, the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, from the Danish peninsula, who wiped out the indigenous Celtic population of England. ... The tribes of England south of the Thames and along the south coast during Caesar’s time all had Belgic names or affiliations. Caesar tells us that these large intrusive settlements had replaced an earlier British population..."
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... t-its-dna/

And let's not get distracted from the point which is that Iberia vomited out the Muslim invaders because they were foreign bodies, unlike pre-Roman Germanic peoples of England who integrated with the Anglo-Saxons who were of similar language, culture and spiritual tradition. Which is who Greeks, Irish and Germans could all integrate in the Americas: they are closely related peoples, where as, Africans and Turks are not integrating after generations.
Hence they had little trouble with their brother and sister Germanic peoples migrating into the island. ...
:lol: You really have no idea about the history of these isles do you.
It is you who is ignorant.

Modern linguistics, archeology and genetics demonstrate that the people of England were already Germanic, so the Anglo-Saxon invasion was like a welcome home party, not a hostile invasion:

"Contrary to narratives suggesting large-scale displacement of the Britons by Anglo-Saxon invaders..."
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35344663

"The other myth I was taught at school, one which persists to this day, is that the English are almost all descended from 5th-century invaders, the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, from the Danish peninsula, who wiped out the indigenous Celtic population of England. ... The tribes of England south of the Thames and along the south coast during Caesar’s time all had Belgic names or affiliations. Caesar tells us that these large intrusive settlements had replaced an earlier British population..."
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... t-its-dna/

And let's not get distracted from the point which is that Iberia vomited out the Muslim invaders because they were foreign bodies, unlike pre-Roman Germanic peoples of England who integrated with the Anglo-Saxons who were of similar language, culture and spiritual tradition. Which is who Greeks, Irish and Germans could all integrate in the Americas: they are closely related peoples, where as, Africans and Turks are not integrating after generations.
This is an important point to note as far as why Germans and Greeks and Irish could all get along in America, but when Mexicans and Muslims started showing up suddenly integration came to a hault and conflict exploded. ...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHVUPri5tjA
I didn't have to click on the link to know it was Gangs of NewYork, those of us who identify as European, and not British like you, don't have the same internecine prejudice against Irish and easily accept the Irish as our European brothers and sisters. Get over it you bigot. Happy St.Patrick's Day!
No. Smoke doesn't cause fire, it correlates, but obviously you wouldn't just toss something smoking into your house and say 'oh well, no risk of staring a fire, it's only smoking, there's no cause, just correlation....'
But there is a causation between some smoke and some fire whereas there is, so far, no causation between genetics and language.
So what? For the literally one-hundredth time in this discussion: So what? What point do you believe you are making. It's never been insisted in months of discussion that race causes language. What do you believe your strawman is demonstrating or defending? Frankly I have no clue.
Last edited by Seleucus on Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus »

Arising_uk wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:49 pm
Seleucus wrote:...
The irony of your comment! You do realize not a meter has been added in 75 years to the rail lines laid down by the Dutch in what is today Indonesia, that the French lines in Cambodia no longer run, and that nothing much has been built in Africa besides what the Chinese are laying down in East Africa today?

Nice article here about how the Nepal-India line is running for the first time this very year, 2017, since the end of colonial times: https://thewire.in/147940/nepal-colonial-era-rail-link/
:lol: You're so conveniently selective - https://www.quora.com/History-of-India- ... he-British
Do you leftist even read your own links? You just float around in your ideological bubbles with eyes tightly shut it seems. Here are the numbers from your very link:

"13000 kms of track after independence but considering that now we have 63000kms of track, so that eventually comes to 50000 kms of track before independence... So the answer to your question is It is True that we have laid less kms of track after independence."
Add to that that they're planning on building bullet trains and compare their rail system to America...
Planning, eh?
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Belinda »

Seleucus wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:32 am
Arising_uk wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:57 pmI'm here to oppose what he says as I think it detrimental to the survival of my nation as a culture and more importantly as a civilization.
Oh yeah. It's pretty obvious how balkanizing your country, turning your people into a minority in their own land and relinquishing political control hostile aliens is going to save your culture and civilization... :roll:
:) Yet there are foreigners who are extraordinarily welcomed. :)

Hostile people, aliens or not, are brought to justice here. The law does take a little time to catch up with morality. Revolutions hasten the process.

Seleucus wrote:
Those guns and tanks prevent your country from being taken from you, your cities from being leveled, and your friends and family from becoming refugees.
There are two issues. One, defence costs do in fact take money away from other good causes. Two, I am sorry to say that I think that my country has been selling arms to the Saudis.
The UK sold £841m worth of arms and security equipment to Saudi Arabia between April and June 2017
Guardian

On another issue, Seleucus, to call climate change and ensuing demographic change a "red herring" is so unbalanced as to be a lie.

On another issue, Seleucus. You have a habit of viewing man's past as governed by large patters such as "Germanic " peoples and how they are sib. And for instance citing the defeat of the Spanish Moors by the Catholic Kings as evidence for your racist theory. It would be more correct for a historian to view evidence as evidence before allocating it to a theory of history. Interpretation is unavoidable but here you are well out of bounds and not sufficiently scientific in your use of sources.
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Re: Race versus culture

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Seleucus wrote:Oh yeah. It's pretty obvious how balkanizing your country, turning your people into a minority in their own land and relinquishing political control hostile aliens is going to save your culture and civilization... :roll:
:roll: 85% of my country is 'white'. If the Scots and Welsh want to go their own way then they can and the regions have always been a bit balky so maybe the NE and Cornwall, et al may fracture us but I think it unlikely.
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Re: Race versus culture

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Seleucus wrote:...
Do you leftist even read your own links? You just float around in your ideological bubbles with eyes tightly shut it seems. Here are the numbers from your very link:

"13000 kms of track after independence but considering that now we have 63000kms of track, so that eventually comes to 50000 kms of track before independence... So the answer to your question is It is True that we have laid less kms of track after independence."
" It's true that route kilometers have not increased tremendously. British laid the track in almost free situation when availability of land for Railways was not a problem. It's not so now. Dedicated freight corridor implementation has got delayed for reasons of land acquisition. Environmental clearance is another issue which British didn't have to bother.

But despite these constrains works of track capacity enhancements have taken place and record of the same is good. Gauge conversion, doubling, tripling and quadrupling of track, electrification of routes, signalling improvements, improvement in track structure and maintenance practices, improvement in terminals, changes in rolling stock and locomotives, phasing out of steam locomotives and massive induction of electric locos, container freight movements, working of longer rakes instead of piecemeal... Sadly people do not notice all this."
Planning, eh?
Well sure, you have to plan before you build?
Last edited by Arising_uk on Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Race versus culture

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Seleucus wrote:Those guns and tanks prevent your country from being taken from you, your cities from being leveled, and your friends and family from becoming refugees. ...
Well that and mainly being used to level other peoples cities and making them refugees. Oh! And propping-up a failing manufacturing industry and economy whilst making a shitload of money for a few.
I think this short video gives a very clear perspective on what internationalist globalism means, https://youtu.be/4Oe12HhJybY
And yet his Odin worshipers invaded and colonized great swathes of these isles? Maybe the people moving today are doing it for the same reason they did, poverty and a poor environment.
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Re: Race versus culture

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Seleucus wrote:Three people of our time most likely to be able save us from the global elite.
:lol: They are the 'global elite', you think Putin, Trump, et al don't have their cash stashed away in international institutions? That Trump doesn't get his goods made abroad?
Is that your anti-White racist term for fair complexioned people?
Nope, it's my British term for blondes who appear to have dark roots but maybe she's just not pure enough.
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus »

Belinda wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:06 amHostile people, aliens or not, are brought to justice here.
No, actually you've given them a vote and right to public office. You simply do not appreciate how much Chinese, Blacks and Muslims hate you.
Those guns and tanks prevent your country from being taken from you, your cities from being leveled, and your friends and family from becoming refugees.
There are two issues. One, defence costs do in fact take money away from other good causes.
Good causes like your freedom and prosperity you mean?
On another issue, Seleucus. You have a habit of viewing man's past as governed by large patters such as "Germanic " peoples and how they are sib. And for instance citing the defeat of the Spanish Moors by the Catholic Kings as evidence for your racist theory. It would be more correct for a historian to view evidence as evidence before allocating it to a theory of history. Interpretation is unavoidable but here you are well out of bounds and not sufficiently scientific in your use of sources.
The individual agent is a projection of capitalist historiography: there are only groups, super organisms, infinite cybernetic entities...
On another issue, Seleucus, to call climate change and ensuing demographic change a "red herring" is so unbalanced as to be a lie.
If you feel there is some relevance to the topic of the connection between race and culture in the subject of global warming, do ahead and spell that out.
Last edited by Seleucus on Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Race versus culture

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Arising_uk wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:26 am
Seleucus wrote:Oh yeah. It's pretty obvious how balkanizing your country, turning your people into a minority in their own land and relinquishing political control hostile aliens is going to save your culture and civilization... :roll:
:roll: 85% of my country is 'white'. If the Scots and Welsh want to go their own way then they can and the regions have always been a bit balky so maybe the NE and Cornwall, et al may fracture us but I think it unlikely.
Since colored immigration isn't stopping and birthrates are about triple the native population's, your people can be expected to lose majority status and political control somewhere around 2050.
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus »

Arising_uk wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:43 amMaybe the people moving today are doing it for the same reason they did, poverty and a poor environment.
Maybe they want just as you say no doubt. I am under no obligation to sacrifice my or my peoples, friends and family's prosperity and safety to accommodate these people. They are a dangerous threat.

That tiger looking at you, he is only hungry, have you no pity?
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Londoner »

Seleucus wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:09 pm Since colored immigration isn't stopping and birthrates are about triple the native population's, your people can be expected to lose majority status and political control somewhere around 2050.
Just as long as your people never get political control.
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