Race versus culture

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davidm
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by davidm » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:27 am

Here, let's recast the question into what a person or ordinary intelligence and morals would ask (i.e., not Donald Trump or those who put him in the Oval Office):

Do you stand with the Rohingya because they are resisting an onslaught?

What would the answer be from people of ordinary intelligence and morals?

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:03 am

What do you mean 'stand with them'? Do you mean like the US 'stood with' the Iraqi people? The Syrian people? Hmm. I think I would rather stand alone thanks all the same.

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Seleucus
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:05 am

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:06 pm
Race is meaningless.
There is only culture.
You can bring up baby into any culture seamlessly. The fact that s/he might look a little different might affect the outcome negatively - but only if people in the culture believe that race is a valid category. And so we see competent, intelligent and successful black people in the USA whose only problem is racist bigots trying to undermine them, when such bigots are their inferiors in many respects.
Race certainly exists and it is something worth having pride in. The product of millions of years of beautiful and sublime life and struggle. It is worth understanding the origins and history or your race be you White, Austronesian, Korean, Arab or what have you. There are a lot of problems comparing languages and genetic systems, languages easily co-mingle but dogs and zebras do not blend. Just as we can speak or Arabic or English or Korean, much the same we can speak of White, Oriental and Semitic races. There certainly is some fuzziness and matters of power in how the definitions are created, but just as sure as you can understand what I'm typing, no one will mistake me for a Capoid or a Negrito.

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Seleucus
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:09 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:01 pm
Seleucus wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:16 pm
Do you stand with the Rohingya because they are an Indo-European people resisting an onslaught of Orientals? Or do you reject them because they have fallen to the Semitic cult, Islam? Do you stand with the Uyghurs because they are arguably of Caucasian race, a remnant of the ancient Tocharians, or turn against them because they too fell in with the cult of Islam? Are you warmer towards Filipinos because they are Christians despite that they are racially Austronesian? Should we support the Kurds because they are Aryan people? Should we extend special aid to the Kalasha of Kafiristan, possibly the descendants of the Greek and Macedonian soldiers of Alexander? Iraq was a Roman province for a thousand years, oughtn't it to be rescued from the Arabs? On the other hand, the Semitic people are the other branch of the Caucasian family and ought to therefore be embraced despite having fallen under the cult of Islam. What do you think? Would you accept someone who is the same race but of an alien culture over someone who is another race but shares your language and religious beliefs? The truth is of course that language, race, and religion tend to align, but in cases where they don't?
You need to learn to think 'outside the box'. You are a relic of the past. Humankind has advanced a bit scientifically since then.
That's right. I'm more and more embracing the past, becoming increasingly anti-modern and anti-science. Why not pick up Evola's Revolt against the modern world or Guénon's The crisis of the modern world?

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Seleucus
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:09 am

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:01 pm
And it is this same moronic tendency that makes the EDL think that England is for "white" people.
England is for White people. That said, I have absolutely no problem with a minority of minorities. It is well known that the centers of great civilizations as in Rome or Athens attract many. The important point here is that the West is the best, if it is allowed to be overrun by inferior cultures it will become authoritarian, filthy, polluted, corrupt, and immoral, if overrun by 3rd World people, the West will become 3rd World itself. Let Orientals have their countries, let Africans have theirs. They certainly put up a great struggle to keep Whites out of their countries, and likewise, us Whites, we also want our countries that are the eternal homelands of our peoples.

Being a polyglot, in a mixed-race marriage, who is a convert to Islam, and who has spent my whole working life living and working with foreigners and colored people, I'm not really that worried when someone calls me "racist, Islamophobic" and all that.
Last edited by Seleucus on Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Seleucus
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:14 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:21 pm
the white-supremacist types don't have the intelligence to get past their archaic and rigid political agenda.
It is probably unlikely that the hierarchy enhancing top of the social pyramid is less intelligent than the hierarchy attenuating leftist bottom of the social pyramid.

I suppose it's also worth noting what is happening in this discussion here, an army of conformist politically correct ideologue zombies are mobbing one or maybe two or three creative and courageous thinkers.
Last edited by Seleucus on Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Seleucus
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:15 am

Londoner wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:29 pm
I will support the victims.
No doubt. I understand how drama triangle/political correnctness/critical theory works.
Last edited by Seleucus on Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Seleucus
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:19 am

davidm wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:09 pm
Seleucus wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:48 pm
Who are you gonna throw your chips in with when there's an incongruity? Your race, or your culture?
How about throwing your chips in with the human race?

People like you are destroying the world, of course, and you won't stop until you succeed. Which you will.
Unfortunately pan-humanism is as yet a pipe-dream. A lot of people in the world don't think like that. What they'd like to do, is behead you and hoard up your women. I think I've heard this sometimes considered under the matrix of the paradox of tolerance?

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Seleucus
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:25 am

davidm wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:45 am
I stand with them because they are being unjustly oppressed, tormented and killed.
No doubt. I understand how drama triangle/political correnctness/critical theory works.

Having myself read over the whole history of the region and the migration of Bengalis and movement of Islam into the area between the Ganges-Brahmaputra Delta and the Arakan Mountains over the past 500 years, I'm not totally convinced that the narrative is that simple.
Did you vote for Trump?
I certainly would have if I were American. I do own a TRUMP T-shirt at least.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:22 am

Seleucus wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:14 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:21 pm
the white-supremacist types don't have the intelligence to get past their archaic and rigid political agenda.
It is probably unlikely that the hierarchy enhancing top of the social pyramid is less intelligent than the hierarchy attenuating leftist bottom of the social pyramid.

I suppose it's also worth noting what is happening in this discussion here, an army of conformist politically correct ideologue zombies are mobbing one or maybe two or three creative and courageous thinkers.
You are neither creative nor courageous. All you are doing is parroting a particular political ideology. No critical thinking and rational and reasoned logic has gone into anything you've spewed on here. It's all straight from the 'conspiracist's handbook'.

Londoner
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Londoner » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:18 am

Seleucus wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:09 am
Being a polyglot, in a mixed-race marriage, who is a convert to Islam, and who has spent my whole working life living and working with foreigners and colored people, I'm not really that worried when someone calls me "racist, Islamophobic" and all that.
Then how about 'deeply confused'?

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:38 am

Seleucus wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:09 am


Being a polyglot, in a mixed-race marriage, who is a convert to Islam, and who has spent my whole working life living and working with foreigners and colored people, I'm not really that worried when someone calls me "racist, Islamophobic" and all that.
I didn't call you any of that. You can be as racist as you want. There's nothing anyone else can do about it. I don't think thoughts and opinions are illegal yet. What I do call you is unscientific and archaic. And you read far too much fascist propaganda. It's also silly to say on here 'Im in a mixed-race marriage.....'. There's no way of knowing if it's true or not. A KKK wizard king could come on here and say 'I'm a black American married to a white woman, and I hate all black people because they are the scum of the earth...Doggone it I wish I was white cos the white race is the best race on god's earth...'

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:03 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:43 am
Hobbes' Choice wrote:True. And it is this same moronic tendency that makes the EDL think that England is for "white" people.
Except the EDL don't think that.
No - they do not 'think' at all.
But most of their members feel that, whatever their official line.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Arising_uk » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:21 am

Hobbes' Choice wrote:No - they do not 'think' at all.
But most of their members feel that, whatever their official line.
You a member then?

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Seleucus
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:20 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:03 am
No - they do not 'think' at all.
Taking a Buddhist perspective, it seems the big majority of respondents here are, as could be expected, engaged at the level of ego, or culture; not too many people favored the perspective of being, that is race, or took a more nuanced view such as spiritual racism. It's worth looking at this perspective which well suits cases when race and culture are incongruous. Evola held this view of spiritual racism that basically rejects concern with genetic or material race; it's basically the same idea as Ernest Renan advances in The life of Jesus. For Renan, Jesus was born a Semite, but spiritually he was a European. Personally I expect that what happened was as the teachings of Jesus exited the Levant for Europe we ended up with essentially the same ancient Indo-European pagan beliefs with a cover story: Mary impregnated by the sky father, Jesus his avatar, in other words basically Hindu. I expect that it is a rather rare case when race and culture are ever really out of sync.

Political correctness/critical theory is the seeing of everything through the dynamic of drama triangle. It is a mental illness, an emotional ego pathology: cognitive distortion. Victim and persecutor and rescuer, that's a projection, it isn't a reality that's really out there. The Rohingya history is pretty complex, it doesn't actually fit drama triangle. It's silly how many replied something like, "I'm with the victim". But of course, that is how the rescuer role gets the pay-off in the game. How can you even say this, what a fraud, I bet you've never even been to Burma.

For those who deny race, it's a very deprived and grey way of looking at the world. There are only flowers, no blue bells, no tiger lily, no Japanese or Balinese Kambojas. For myself, I know my lineage back 13 generations by name, spottily going into the middle-ages, and then only by the great dispersals and invasions before that. I understand my wife's lineage and her race back into the neolithic too. Amazing and sublime stories. I feel sorry for people who haven't taken any interest in their genesis.

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