Legislating Human Decency

Abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theory and other such hot topics.

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Belinda
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Re: Legislating Human Decency

Post by Belinda » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:17 am

Artistic solution wrote:
Then why flap your gums spouting your "philosophy". You started this and now you take the defeatist attitude when someone holds up a mirror to faulty logic.
I doubt if anybody here has much power to change the world. But we can change our own attitudes, learn how to reason, understand something of what others are thinking, and acquire new general knowledge. And discussions help.

So I believe that Trixie should rise to the challenge and answer Artistic's question with honesty and thoughtfulness.

Walker
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Re: Legislating Human Decency

Post by Walker » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:29 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:38 pm
Walker wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:03 am
While you’re at it, pass legislation to abolish suffering.

Also, legislate world peace.

I think that would be nice.

If you disagree with this proposal, you obviously want people to suffer, and you want war.
There is no worse suffering than being forced to make peace with your enemy. And there is beauty to combat.
Just make sure the legislation reads peace for each and all, in every situation, at all times. That should cover it, don’t you think?

artisticsolution
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Re: Legislating Human Decency

Post by artisticsolution » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:48 pm

Walker wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:29 pm
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:38 pm
Walker wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:03 am
While you’re at it, pass legislation to abolish suffering.

Also, legislate world peace.

I think that would be nice.

If you disagree with this proposal, you obviously want people to suffer, and you want war.
There is no worse suffering than being forced to make peace with your enemy. And there is beauty to combat.
Just make sure the legislation reads peace for each and all, in every situation, at all times. That should cover it, don’t you think?
Or maybe we should do what republicans have become famous for...doing nothing but complain.

Walker
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Re: Legislating Human Decency

Post by Walker » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:53 pm

artisticsolution wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:48 pm
Walker wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:29 pm
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:38 pm


There is no worse suffering than being forced to make peace with your enemy. And there is beauty to combat.
Just make sure the legislation reads peace for each and all, in every situation, at all times. That should cover it, don’t you think?
Or maybe we should do what republicans have become famous for...doing nothing but complain.
Mostly they complain about the lies and deceit of the Progs.

Now that they have majority control they should legislate truth, make truth the law of the land.

artisticsolution
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Re: Legislating Human Decency

Post by artisticsolution » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:00 am

Walker wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:53 pm
artisticsolution wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:48 pm
Walker wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:29 pm

Just make sure the legislation reads peace for each and all, in every situation, at all times. That should cover it, don’t you think?
Or maybe we should do what republicans have become famous for...doing nothing but complain.
Mostly they complain about the lies and deceit of the Progs.

Now that they have majority control they should legislate truth, make truth the law of the land.
Wouldnt that be refreshing? But they wont..

1. Because they are terrible liars And dont want to be silenced.

And

2. Because they do NOTHING.

Walker
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Re: Legislating Human Decency

Post by Walker » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:32 am

artisticsolution wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:00 am
Walker wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:53 pm
artisticsolution wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:48 pm


Or maybe we should do what republicans have become famous for...doing nothing but complain.
Mostly they complain about the lies and deceit of the Progs.

Now that they have majority control they should legislate truth, make truth the law of the land.
Wouldnt that be refreshing? But they wont..

1. Because they are terrible liars And dont want to be silenced.

And

2. Because they do NOTHING.
1. On the other hand, adroit liars mimic and thus futilize the decency legislation act with slick, presidential affectations.

2. Impossible. Any doing at all is a doing of something.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Legislating Human Decency

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:52 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:38 pm
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:07 pm
Civilisation anonymises people.
I think there is a genuine urge to co-operate, share and contribute to the community that has evolved over a million years and more. But when societal numbers increased beyond a certain number that allowed predatory psychopaths to take advantage and slip between the cracks.
Small scale societies are generally egalitarian and tend to have strict rules on sharing and behaviour.
These days you need something else that can offer the fellow feeing that we have all evolved with to thrive.
In the USA the culture of the self (or should I say cult of the self) has pretty much crushed the feeling of community and that is just how the powers like it; a divided people is much easier to control.
You can be quite stunning at times Hobbes.
That's a nice thing to say.
Thanks.

Kennethjex
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Legislating Human Decency

Post by Kennethjex » Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:50 pm

Its interesting to though I think....maybe the more you take something away in one area, the more people rally to keep there customs in other areas. The chinese have lost so much culturally to the west already....I think it is only human nature that there is a response to keep certain traditions alive, however bizarre.

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Gary Childress
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Re: Legislating Human Decency

Post by Gary Childress » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:27 pm

Wow, this is a relatively old thread being 'bumped'. It's an interesting and very revealing OP, though. I never saw it before but the OP is also very depressing to read. In the end, agonizing enough that it is, I think tragedy is only tragedy. It can't be fixed; it can't be remedied; it can't be turned around. It's just tragedy. People suffer because of it. That's all that can really happen in the case of a tragedy--suffering.

Walker
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Re: Legislating Human Decency

Post by Walker » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:06 am

Gary Childress wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:27 pm
Wow, this is a relatively old thread being 'bumped'. It's an interesting and very revealing OP, though. I never saw it before but the OP is also very depressing to read. In the end, agonizing enough that it is, I think tragedy is only tragedy. It can't be fixed; it can't be remedied; it can't be turned around. It's just tragedy. People suffer because of it. That's all that can really happen in the case of a tragedy--suffering.
Have you tracked the silence of the aftermath?

Not many stories explaining why.

Lots of media stories about you know what, 24/7.

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-1-
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Re: Legislating Human Decency

Post by -1- » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:34 pm

artisticsolution wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:37 pm
The fear should come from being sued for lack of human decency.
Most laws are designed to promote human decency.

Even the most basic very first law books concerned themselves with that, all the way to the very present moment.

- thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not cheat with your neighbour's wives, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not disobey your parents.

These are all promoting decency. Killing is indecent, so is cheating, stealing, lying and disobeying your parents.

------------------------------

I don't know much of the codified laws, but the Sherman Anti-Combines law was made to promote decency in business. The landlord-tenant act is entirely about decency. The professional health act is about decency. The police conduct laws are about decency. All the laws are about decency. The education law is about decency. The human rights code is about decency.

Impenitent
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Re: Legislating Human Decency

Post by Impenitent » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:37 pm

"laws to make humans decent"

"morals to make humans decent"

persuading to prevent choice is futile...

there are other more effective means

-Imp

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-1-
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Re: Legislating Human Decency

Post by -1- » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:49 am

Impenitent wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:37 pm
"laws to make humans decent"

"morals to make humans decent"

persuading to prevent choice is futile...

there are other more effective means

-Imp
What are those other, more effective means? Pray do tell us.

Walker
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Re: Legislating Human Decency

Post by Walker » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:41 am

Laws work because they can punish.

Punishment is not: doing right to a human.

Punishment is: doing wrong to a human.
(Life - execution. Liberty - prison. Happiness - bankrupt.)

Decency based on law, is based on the threat of punishment, which is based on doing wrong to humans.

Legislating human decency is actually legislating fear ... of punishment.

To do wrong to humans is not decent.
-1- wrote: thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not cheat with your neighbour's wives, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not disobey your parents.
Commandments are laws with inherent punishments, namely, the offender's human nature punishes the human offender.

(How many wives does your neighbor have?)

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-1-
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Re: Legislating Human Decency

Post by -1- » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:46 pm

Walker wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:41 am
Laws work because they can punish.

Punishment is not: doing right to a human.

Punishment is: doing wrong to a human.
(Life - execution. Liberty - prison. Happiness - bankrupt.)

Decency based on law, is based on the threat of punishment, which is based on doing wrong to humans.

Legislating human decency is actually legislating fear ... of punishment.

To do wrong to humans is not decent.
-1- wrote: thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not cheat with your neighbour's wives, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not disobey your parents.
Commandments are laws with inherent punishments, namely, the offender's human nature punishes the human offender.

(How many wives does your neighbor have?)
1. Punishment can be avoided by behaving decently. There are many a persons who would behave indecently who don't, actually, because of fear of punishment. I would have murdered my own aunt and several of my bosses, but I did not, because of the fear of law.\

2. Legislating human decency is actually legislating fear ... of punishment.

This is trickier. My fear of punishment was not an active fear... I was not fearing jail term. All I had to do to avoid going to jail is not murder my aunt and some of my bosses.

So my punishment was not fear... my punishment was the continuation of living with abuse by my aunt and by my several particular bosses.

In this case they were not decent. I was decent by the pedagogical effect of the law. I kept on suffering because the aunt and the bosses were not legislated to act decently.

There is a point beyond which law does not go. But it will. Right now we are experiencing the law going where it hadn't gone before: punishing men for casually sexually abusing women, by touching them here, by copping a feel there. This has never been a legal issue, and many women were bothered by this, and many men were indecent. Now this is being put to an end.

If a casual assault is punished now, then I can safely say that the law has a potential to encroach private interpersonal relationships where one person suffers due to another's unfair and uncalled-for actions.

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