Freedom or Freedoms as values

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RWStanding
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:23 pm

Freedom or Freedoms as values

Post by RWStanding » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:14 am

Freedom or Freedoms as values
There is an understandable but dangerous assumption that we as a democracy must have fundamental values. The result is a set of fixed rules. We see this with human rights, with people demanding specific things as their right.
It is Freedom as a value, related to other values, that should be considered fundamental.
Freedoms, in plural, are specific pragmatics that we derive from a given set of values.
An altruistic society will certainly construct such a range of pragmatic 'rights' and responsibilities.
But as pragmatics they must be open to discussion and amendment and related together according to what is practical at a particular time. But with a view to the future.
In altruist society education for the young in particular is a pragmatic right. It is so indeed because we cannot survive without it - it is normal family upbringing. On a formalised basis, provided by society, it is something that we can and should afford. We can do so because we are have an advanced economy with surplus wealth, that should be shared.
Equality is of course a value in the same dimension as freedom. Neither or both of them mean much that is sensible by themselves, they have to be related to values in other dimensions, in particular social responsibility, and against other values. Nature is not a value.

Impenitent
Posts: 1816
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Freedom or Freedoms as values

Post by Impenitent » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:09 pm

surplus wealth...

we have decided that you have too much, you will give it to us or we will take it by force...

how dare you call us thieves

you have a right to a gun?!?

-Imp

osgart
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:38 am

Re: Freedom or Freedoms as values

Post by osgart » Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:42 am

intrinsic value to self and others, is the reason we should all live by. I do believe there should be opportunity for all citizens in this life, and not just the affluent ones. money is the value of work, should it not be the value of beings as well. a UBI that is not predicated on tax but money creation should be given to every citizen.
Money, and capitalism rule like an empire. socialism demeans the value of freedom. A stark alternative to democrats and republicans is sorely needed.
in a republic a lot of voices get drowned out. we need a true democracy to replace it. if we are to give all citizens the power to live, than it's also imperative to educate them.

it's 2017, people are interested in a stark progressive change, and not the business as usual we've had with republicans, and democrats for so long. A few scientists have experimented with new forms of government. it's quite clear the old forms doesn't work for everyone, only the powerful and affluent.

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:09 am

Re: Freedom or Freedoms as values

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:55 pm

I sort of agree that to measure the legality of something, freedom should be viewed in the context of other things we have freedom to. For example, the US constitution is suppose to grant us protection from unreasonable search and seizure, so civil forfeiture and the war on drugs should not be a thing, in my opinion. We don't just have a blanket freedom to whatever we just decide.

However, many people demand freedom in a moral sense and not in terms of finding legal consistency to other established laws, and I understand the incentive to that, but it's a demand that's often abused.

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