Massive Mass Reparations for African-Americans

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Massive Mass Reparations for African-Americans

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed May 31, 2017 6:18 pm

There might not be a specific genetic sequence that is unique to 'white people' or 'black people', but to say 'there is no such thing as 'race'' is just pedantic, PC, nit-picking. When the average Joe talks about race he's not thinking genetic coding, he's using his eyes and and his brain. 'Race' is a social concept, and anyone who claims to be blind to cultural, religious, national etc. differences in groups of people, or that they don't exist, is a bloody liar. Scientists and researchers generalise all the time about groups of people. Medical research for example couldn't function properly without it.
Did the PC lobby seriously think they were going to eliminate racism by saying 'races don't exist'? :lol: They are just as stupid as the idiots who go on about 'the white race'.
And if you want to be really pedantic you could talk about alleles and dominant and recessive genes. This is why when you think of a Chinese person you don't generally picture someone with blonde hair and blue eyes.
Anyone who claims that humans are completely self-determining and individualistic is pathetically deluded. Put a baby in the forest to be raised by wolves and see how socially acceptable it is when brought into human society as an adult. Humans are idea/behaviour-sharing/mimicking organisms. They quickly adopt similar traits and characteristics when grouped together, even on a large scale--traits and characteristics that are obvious to anyone observing from outside the group.

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Re: Massive Mass Reparations for African-Americans

Post by Science Fan » Wed May 31, 2017 8:06 pm

Well, the anti-science lobby that promotes the fallacy that races are real and that medicine can't get along without the concept are adopting a world-view that simply denies reality. I'll stick with real science. Races do not exist. Medical doctors who practice race-based medicine are committing malpractice. There are numerous specific examples of race-based medicine leading to misdiagnosed patients and the mistreatment of patients. For example, white people who had sickle cell anemia, displaying all the classic symptoms of the disease, have gone undiagnosed for years, because their doctor could not grasp that the disease was not confined to people of the so-called "black race." There are no diseases that are exclusively confined to any so-called race. Many of the altered medical standards for black people, while still used by some medical doctors, result in black-skinned people getting far poorer medical treatment than others. Race-based medicine is simply a relic from a very racist past which is still infecting some medical professionals to this day. Including teaching some medical students that their black patients should be subjected to higher levels of pain than their white patients, because blacks can racially handle greater pain levels than whites. Other biochemical testing parameters are also often misread because of the infatuation with race in medicine, which results in the failure to apply uniform testing standards for everyone.

The idea of race is also inconsistent with the theory of evolution, and evolution provides a far better explanation for the superficial difference that some people attempt to classify as racial differences. To believe in races, one must, to at least a certain extent, deny biological evolution. We have enough problems with creationism without granting the movement racist allies that, according to some, we should allow to go unchallenged.

The idea of race is also inconsistent with the findings of neurobiology that reject genetic determinism. Keep in mind the concept of race also entails the fiction that certain so-called races are genetically superior to others. That's not even how genes operate. There are no so-called black-race genes that make blacks lazy and stupid or white-raced genes that make white people energetic and smart. This is because there are no such genes period. Genes don't even operate that way. Genes code for proteins, not behavior. Even if we extend the analysis to the coding of neurotransmitters and hormones, neither neurotransmitters nor hormones cause behavior to occur. The concept of race not only rejects evolution, but the very basic understanding of how genes actually operate. Promoting such ignorance has nothing going for it.

Once people stop playing to the anti-science crowd and realize that races really are a fiction in biology, then racism does have a good chance of ending. It would be completely irrational to discriminate against anyone based on a fiction. It's like when women were denied college educations because medical doctors at the time thought it would adversely affect their ability to give birth to children. Once that fiction was exposed, it cleared the way for women to attend higher education without such an irrational barrier holding them back. People these days laugh at those sexist ideas and wonder how anyone could have believed them. In fact, most people are surprised to learn that such ideas ever existed at all. This is because people know that any such claim is a biological absurdity. There is no reason to think that there will be a different result when people accept the findings of science with respect to the claims of biological races existing. When people understand that it makes no more sense to claim a black race exists than it does to claim a blue-eyed race versus a green-eyed race exists, then we should see the affects of racism dwindle and disappear.

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Re: Massive Mass Reparations for African-Americans

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed May 31, 2017 8:57 pm

Clearly that flew right over his head. :roll:

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Re: Massive Mass Reparations for African-Americans

Post by Science Fan » Wed May 31, 2017 10:57 pm

Clearly, some people lack a basic understanding of science. I will continue to advocate for science, do not care in the least if I step on those who engage in political correctness. In fact, time and again, I see racists getting more upset over the science that shows no races actually exist than any other argument they are confronted with.

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Re: Massive Mass Reparations for African-Americans

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed May 31, 2017 11:09 pm

That's hilarious, coming from someone whose position is about as PC as you can get.

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Re: Massive Mass Reparations for African-Americans

Post by Walker » Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:28 am

Systematic wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:19 pm
The topic of reparations for African-American slavery in the United States has been proposed. Rather than the paltry amount that will likely be proposed, I believe that the real opportunity lies in being highly generous. Due to the relatively small size of the African-American population residing in the United States, that generosity would be possible. Nominally, I would like to see each African-American adult to receive approximately $300,000 per annum.
Let the good times roll!

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Re: Massive Mass Reparations for African-Americans

Post by Seleucus » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:06 am

Science Fan wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 8:06 pm
Well, the anti-science lobby that promotes the fallacy that races are real
I appreciate that for politically correct types "race" is a trigger word. Since I've watched this discussion go on ad nauseam before and the topic I am quite interested in is repatriation for global change, not the race debate, I'll basically leave this alone. I am of course aware that modern race theory is based largely on haplogroups. Thus we can say that the Black Egyptians hypothesis was wrong. The posing of the hypothesis is meaningful to speakers of standard English. The science I read today isn't bigoted, it's simply objective to note that,

""In the ancient Egyptians, we don't find much at all sub-Saharan African ancestry. They look very Near Eastern and almost zero sub-Saharan African ancestry," lead researcher Johannes Krause of the Max Planck Institute for the Science [said]. This is different from today. Today you have something like 10, 15 per cent sub-Saharan African ancestry and this has increased over the last 1,500 years."

Or, we can just use our eyes and look at the Fayum mummy portraits and see that Egyptians weren't Black. There's nothing wrong with taking an interest in human racial diversity, it's very fascinating for people like me who like science, I highly recommend checking out "AnthroScape human biodiversity forum", it's a sophisticated and beautiful exploration of race. What is sad and horrible is what some people have done with their concepts of race. It's also a bit sad when people who are otherwise rational lose their minds to politically correct mumbo-jumbo.

I do however want to quickly acknowledge what you are saying. The idea there is no race comes out of critical theory. The denial of essentialism exists in feminist theory like Simone de Beauvoir where there is no real male or female gender, it's also in Judy Butler where the sexes male and female are denied to exist, in Gayle Rubin and Guy Hocquenghem there is no such thing as the act of sex, in linguistics there is no English language, and so on and so on. The border lines are fuzzy, there are outliers. I agree with all that. And, there are also standards, ideals, norms, models, cores and so on that allow us to use the words even though we are aware of the problematizations.

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Re: Massive Mass Reparations for African-Americans

Post by Science Fan » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:15 pm

Look, there is zero need for any so-called reparations if racism disappears. The best way for racism to disappear is for people to spread the news from science that race is a biological fiction. The American Anthropological Association even has a website dedicated to explaining this basic science to a wide audience. I'm going to continue to explain to people, when the concept of race comes up, especially when racism appears, that race is a biological fiction. I'll always stick with real science, real facts, over any ideological belief system.

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Re: Massive Mass Reparations for African-Americans

Post by Seleucus » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:12 pm

Science Fan wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:15 pm
Look, there is zero need for any so-called reparations if racism disappears. The best way for racism to disappear is for people to spread the news from science that race is a biological fiction. The American Anthropological Association even has a website dedicated to explaining this basic science to a wide audience. I'm going to continue to explain to people, when the concept of race comes up, especially when racism appears, that race is a biological fiction. I'll always stick with real science, real facts, over any ideological belief system.
Just ain't enough to go around. That's the realpolitik of it. Who gets the heated or and air-conditioned house, the fresh fruit, the car, the surgery, the university degree and the international flights? And who lives in the slums, eats plain and packaged food, pulls around a cart, dies without treatment, and gets no education and takes no nice holidays. It's a turf war for money and bitches and I'm gonna get mine, and you are not getting it, I'm not paying for your ass because that's my kid's education and medical treatment. Understand?

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Re: Massive Mass Reparations for African-Americans

Post by Science Fan » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:35 pm

Poverty is declining and has been for some time. This is the benefits of free-trade, which so many people are against these days. The issue of poverty is separate from the issue of racism, although racists certainly do take positions that prevent minorities from getting ahead economically. But, as I stated previously, if we get rid of racism, then that is an issue that won't interfere with economic growth for minorities.

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Re: Massive Mass Reparations for African-Americans

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:34 pm

Yes. And the human race will all have a great big group hug because our genes say we are all exactly the same. Hypocrites will disappear. Sociopaths will no longer exist. There will be no more cultural, National, or religious differences, just the big, happy, hugging culture of the human family. We will all love each other as much as we do our own children.

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Re: Massive Mass Reparations for African-Americans

Post by Seleucus » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:36 am

Science Fan wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:35 pm
The issue of poverty is separate from the issue of racism,
Yes and no. There can be gangsterism inside an ethnically homogeneous society. And, race is sort of like one's gang colors, pardon the pun. Race is sort of like our extended family, so there's a kind of allegiance there, a desire to keep the wealth in the family line.
Science Fan wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:35 pm
if we get rid of racism, then that is an issue that won't interfere with economic growth for minorities.
A lot of people hate white people. And a lot of people hate Chinese people too. Chinese suffer significant racism in South-East Asia. And yet Chinese control everything in Malaysia, the Philippines and Indonesia because they value diligence and education. By contrast, to put it bluntly, South-East Asians are stupid and lazy. Not because of any difference of genes of any importance, but for cultural reasons. If a Chinese family adopted a South-East Asian child and raised him or her from infancy, basically that child would grow up to value diligence and education; and vice versa. I'm sure you can appreciate how one can apply this paradigm in a lot of different environments and countries. South-East Asians by contrast are mostly one or two generations removed from tribalism, another portion is coming out of, or still are peasantry. A tiny minority have feudal society as their heritage. Compare that to the the twenty-five-hundred years of Chinese civilization, the culture is very ancient and a Chinese person has much to draw on. There are other cultures too that are very ancient, lines of civilization that continue more or less unbroken across millennia. Those cultures and the psychologies that make them up, provided their civilization didn't take a wrong turn (-- like Islam), are today the most advanced and also prosperous in the world. Things that people from these advanced cultures take for granted are unknown in less civilized cultures. Kindergarten stuff like the 3-finger grip when holding a pencil. Billions of people don't even know about that. Never mind environmentalism, the value of freedom of speech, nutrition and fitness, philosophical idealism, initiative, a belief in progress and on and on. This is why some cultures and races live like they do, and why others live the way they do. These are internal factors, external ones, like racism, I don't personally believe are very important in economic growth for "minorities". I expect that a lot of people haven't totally realized this significance of culture and civilization and overlook it and latch onto concepts like racism to explain the failure of some cultures to thrive. I would even say that the real racism is not appreciating this importance of culture and expecting people of a "minority" to just suddenly value diligence and education out of the blue.

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Re: Massive Mass Reparations for African-Americans

Post by Seleucus » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:14 am

"DHS Kelly: Repatriation of Haitians Is Good for Haiti

Foreigners who were given emergency refuge in the United States should go home when their emergency is over, says John Kelly, secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.

That is a dramatic reversal from prior administrations, which have repeatedly extended the supposedly “Temporary Protected Status” stays of roughly 300,000 Haitians, El Salvadorans, Hondurans and others who have fled since the 1990s from natural and man-made disasters to the United States.

Kelly’s spokesman, David Lapan, highlighted a second dramatic policy change when he said that Kelly recently told Haitian government officials that the return of 50,000 U.S.-based Haitians would be a plus for their homeland. “He talked to them about the fact that a number of Haitians who are living in the United States … have education and skill sets that would be helpful to the country as it continues to rebuild,” Lapan told reporters.

Overall, U.S. immigration and refugee policies tend to pull the best-educated people out of developing countries, Krikorian said. “Whether from the developing countries of Latin America, Africa or the Middle East, the people who are coming here are the very people that those countries need to develop,” he said. “There are many African countries where the majority if physicians born in that county no longer live there,” he said, adding that there is no well-understood term to describe this process of pulling skilled people out of developing countries for use in wealthy countries, such as the United States.

...

Kelly recently extended the stay for the Haitians until January 2018 but is also telling Haitians they should prepare to return home or else seek alternative legal visas to stay in the United States. “The message is: by definition, TPS is temporary,” Kelly said June 1. “They should start thinking now about what will happen in the not-too-distant future..." (Munro, 2017).

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