When Will Humanity Become Human?

Abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theory and other such hot topics.

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: When Will Humanity Become Human?

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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The topic of the thread is actually a deep philosophical query.

It is fine that you don't see this. I post knowing some individual members are unable to understand the essence of a thread.

All is well. No worries.








War. Why do we kill?:

Love of country?

Love of Race?

Love of ethnicity?

Unresolved hate?

Instinctive natural make-up?

Need of food, clothing, shelter?

Need for freedom from oppression?

There are many reasons we kill...



America has had the reputation of not only being the leader of the free world but more recently America has had the rap of being violent. Perhaps unnecessarily so.

We are a country of over 300 million people. We are a country that recognizes there are over 300 million firearms in our circulation. Over one firearm per man, woman, and child.

39 Americans die each day from firearms within our country.

We are a country of continuous war. 22 veterans A DAY kill themselves. Over 8,000 per year. Perhaps more, for we really don't document well this statistic.



No matter who we are or where we live, we kill.

We may kill for love, for hate, for need, for religion, for greed, for many other reasons but we still kill.



Despite our technological miracles that make life so much easier, we still kill. No matter what economic or social ring we find ourselves in...we still kill.


Will humans ever evolve, mentally, physically, & emotionally where we don't kill each other? No exceptions. Killing; the death penalty will never come into the equation no matter what our differences. No matter what we need or take.


Will we ever become human to the extent where we do not kill one another?






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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: When Will Humanity Become Human?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.


The topic of the thread is actually a deep philosophical query..


No it is not

Will we ever become human to the extent where we do not kill one another?

.

Human is what human does. Ask a better question.
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Arising_uk
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Re: When Will Humanity Become Human?

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.


The topic of the thread is actually a deep philosophical query.

Not really Bill as to be this you'd have to give some philosophical answers.
It is fine that you don't see this. I post knowing some individual members are unable to understand the essence of a thread.
Oh we understand it well enough Bill, it's just another in a long line of sensationalist and emotive posts to support the existential issues you have with your life.
All is well. No worries.
Then no need to post.
...

Will we ever become human to the extent where we do not kill one another?[/size]
You are making the hippie assumption that killing is not part of being human?
Walker
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Re: When Will Humanity Become Human?

Post by Walker »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Walker wrote:
Hobbes wrote:It's a stupid question.
It's still a stupid question and will remain so. Nothing you have said changes that.
Well I’ll have you know right now there’s many labels for that attitude, young man.
ROTFLMFHO.
That’s the spirit!
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: When Will Humanity Become Human?

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Actually I think it more appropriate just to ask deep philosophical questions & open the thread up to stimulating conversations with fellow members here. Do you really want me to ask & immediately ANSWER the questions that I put forward?

Don't ALL OF US post just another in a long line of sensationalist and emotive posts to support the existential issues we have with our lives?


Our emotions and thoughts and experiences are all we really have to work with here.


I think it is worth noting or at least questioning whether or not being more human, more humane, more evolved would include less violence, less killing...It's just a question.


Again, I think it would benefit many members here to focus-in on addressing the proposed topic at hand instead of making sophomoric attempts at bringing down fellow members. It makes you look bad & kind-of reduces the effectiveness of the entire site for new members.


All good to you.






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Walker
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Re: When Will Humanity Become Human?

Post by Walker »

Your thread. No offense intended. I’ve just been laughing a lot lately.

Indulge me one more classic that connects to your topic.

Lighten up, Francis.
Walker
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Re: When Will Humanity Become Human?

Post by Walker »

Bill wrote:Actually I think it more appropriate just to ask deep philosophical questions & open the thread up to stimulating conversations with fellow members here. Do you really want me to ask & immediately ANSWER the questions that I put forward?

Don't ALL OF US post just another in a long line of sensationalist and emotive posts to support the existential issues we have with our lives?


Our emotions and thoughts and experiences are all we really have to work with here.


I think it is worth noting or at least questioning whether or not being more human, more humane, more evolved would include less violence, less killing...It's just a question.


Again, I think it would benefit many members here to focus-in on addressing the proposed topic at hand instead of making sophomoric attempts at bringing down fellow members. It makes you look bad & kind-of reduces the effectiveness of the entire site for new members.


All good to you.


Since you’re serious, Bill, then in all seriousness, inference indicates a fundamental reason why people kill.

The Fundamental Cause Is Self-cherishing.

Is it wrong to self-cherish? No. It is how we survive. However, own the fact that self-cherishing is the source of all problems, and problems are creations of the mind.

At the root of every intentional killing lies self-cherishing. Whether for food, or retribution, or fear, or self-defense, the root of every intentional killing is self-cherishing.

And so you say, what of suicide?

Yes, that too. The cause of suicide is self-cherishing.

What is being cherished more than life?

What is being cherished is the self-image, the self-concept, which is a conditioned mind creation, that is conditioning perception. Thus, although awareness can be enslaved by mind, awareness can also be not enslaved.

Who is the slave? Awareness blinded by ignorance.

Who is not the slave? Awareness.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: When Will Humanity Become Human?

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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................................................................
Image





Self cherishing means something in Buddhism



A mental attitude that considers oneself to be supremely important and precious. It is regarded as a principal object to be abandoned by Bodhisattvas.






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Lacewing
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Re: When Will Humanity Become Human?

Post by Lacewing »

Bill Wiltrack wrote: ...making sophomoric attempts /...makes you look bad & kind-of reduces the effectiveness of the entire site...
This describes what I was pointing out to you about your own behavior, Bill. And now you project that behavior onto other people. Evidently what you do is some sort of "zen"... whereas what other people do is not helpful or appropriate. How can "humanity become human" (as you say) when it can't even take responsibility or cooperate on the small stuff? "Killing" is a type of attitude. It's not just about war. It can be about destruction and disruption and hatefulness and disrespect and sacrificing others for ones own desires. So many people complain about the state of humanity, while dismissing their own behavior/attitudes. As if evolution has to happen "out there".
Walker
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Re: When Will Humanity Become Human?

Post by Walker »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.






................................................................
Image





Self cherishing means something in Buddhism



A mental attitude that considers oneself to be supremely important and precious. It is regarded as a principal object to be abandoned by Bodhisattvas.






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Not necessarily abandoned. Just put into a less-localized perspective than the conditioned self-concept. The term can apply to rules of conduct intended to help discover the spontaneous state of natural being that is described as boddhisattva, though the rules of conduct do not necessarily lead to the spontaneous state.
Dubious
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Re: When Will Humanity Become Human?

Post by Dubious »

...Humanity has always been human. That's the problem
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Arising_uk
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Re: When Will Humanity Become Human?

Post by Arising_uk »

Bill Wiltrack wrote: Do you really want me to ask & immediately ANSWER the questions that I put forward?
Just once would be nice, just to be philosophical y'know.
Don't ALL OF US post just another in a long line of sensationalist and emotive posts to support the existential issues we have with our lives?
Nope.
Our emotions and thoughts and experiences are all we really have to work with here.
There's also reason and logic, philosophy site an' all that.
I think it is worth noting or at least questioning whether or not being more human, more humane, more evolved would include less violence, less killing...It's just a question.
One you didn't ask as you assumed the answer.
Again, I think it would benefit many members here to focus-in on addressing the proposed topic at hand instead of making sophomoric attempts at bringing down fellow members. It makes you look bad & kind-of reduces the effectiveness of the entire site for new members.
Not really as it demonstrates an aspect of Philosophy you dislike as it would involve you questioning your thoughts, namely critique.

As to the 'sophomoric', philosophically speaking that is what your posts exactly are.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: When Will Humanity Become Human?

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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..........................................................
Image




Reason & logic are actually thoughts.


You make yourself look bad
, unnecessarily, my good man.


Give yourself a break.





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Arising_uk
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Re: When Will Humanity Become Human?

Post by Arising_uk »

Nice Titan, you into cosplay then.
Bill Wiltrack wrote:
Reason & logic are actually thoughts.
Not quite, they are methods or strategies for using thoughts, in general they are thinks.

You make yourself look bad
, unnecessarily, my good man.
Unlike you I'm not in it for the self-publicity or image.
Give yourself a break.[/size].
This is my break.

I know it's a slim hope but any chance you'll ever answer a question with a philosophical reply?
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: When Will Humanity Become Human?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Bill Wiltrack wrote:.



War. Why do we kill?:
Because we are human,
Love of country?

Because we are human,
Love of Race?

Because we are human,
Love of ethnicity?

Because we are human,
Unresolved hate?

Because we are human,
Instinctive natural make-up?

Because we are human,
Need of food, clothing, shelter?

Because we are human,
Need for freedom from oppression?

Because we are human,
There are many reasons we kill...


Because we are human,

America has had the reputation of not only being the leader of the free world but more recently America has had the rap of being violent. Perhaps unnecessarily so.

Because we are human,
We are a country of over 300 million people. We are a country that recognizes there are over 300 million firearms in our circulation. Over one firearm per man, woman, and child.

39 Americans die each day from firearms within our country.

Because we are human,
We are a country of continuous war. 22 veterans A DAY kill themselves. Over 8,000 per year. Perhaps more, for we really don't document well this statistic.

Because we are human,

No matter who we are or where we live, we kill.

Because we are human,
We may kill for love, for hate, for need, for religion, for greed, for many other reasons but we still kill.


Because we are human,

Despite our technological miracles that make life so much easier, we still kill. No matter what economic or social ring we find ourselves in...we still kill.


Because we are human,
Will humans ever evolve, mentally, physically, & emotionally where we don't kill each other? No exceptions. Killing; the death penalty will never come into the equation no matter what our differences. No matter what we need or take.


Because we are human,
Will we ever become human to the extent where we do not kill one another?

We Already are human,


.

We need to learn to put reason before emotion, and Rationality before instinct. Science before religion.
That would be metahuman.
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote: Kinda, but I would call it the smarter, more intellectual human, an evolved human.
But "evolved" does not imply more inclusively moral.
I would argue that indeed it does. If we were living several thousand years ago, your neighbor might come over to your cave, even though it was a several mile jog, kill you with your club, take your better cave, fire, woman, and food, simply because he was better at sneaking up on prey and wielding a club to kill it. Today, you and he drink hot toddies, talk about the newest CARS, and the football scores, and I'm talking about the real, original football, not that American crap! ;) So I believe the evidence speaks for itself.

That today, due to our population relative to resources, in the face of planetary challenges, the writing seemingly on the wall, screaming that an end to continued growth is mandatory, when the cupboard becomes bare, the earth barren; war? You've got to be kidding me!!! That's an extremely absurd notion!!! Talk about the highway to hell, perpetuating ones problems, sheesh!!! That doesn't fit with intelligence at all!!! You did notice that I mentioned Intelligence, didn't you? ;) We need balance, not growth. Capitalism, when thrown into the mix, is indeed a curse. One of the many problems. I don't really care what anyone says, money, the glittering prize, is for a fools eyes, a dumb animal! They are incapable of looking at what science has taught us, putting it all together, thus seeing our current selves from a third person perspective, as if one were viewing an ant farm. A glittering prize is just a somewhat kinder club; maybe they can dig in the garbage cans for food, in the backs of allies. I thought we were talking about a more intelligent human!... We'll either join as one grand entity, so to speak, or we'll die horribly, tribe against tribe, in a nuclear time. That those leading some of us, are more clown than intelligent humanoids, (next gen), ;) is not a comment on all of us more thinking types at all. Like I've said in the past, what we need are not politicians running this very important show, rather all the top minds in all the studied fields of science, and otherwise. One seat for each discipline, PhD's, them all! Who better to steer the, not USS, HMS, or otherwise, rather the United Earth Ship (UES), I like it!!! ;) We want to one day appear as those aliens in Stephen Spielberg's, "A.I.," although the end of the movie makes me cry every time I watch it. ;) Laugh at me, you're allowed! ;) From all the evidence of all of history, it stands to reason that morals do in fact increase inclusively along with human intelligence. It's just that we still have some dumb ones floating around, not wearing their proper hats.Image
;)

All the indicators seem to point to an increasingly more violent humans,
For instance??? And please include relative populations in your data, because it's more important than you may realize.

as we 'evolve' ever onward.
Yet some are just putz's.

If by intellectual you would include William F Buckley Jnr., then you might have to think again.
I don't really know who he is, nor do I necessarily care! I know what it is that I know, from the sources I know it from. It's been a 58 year long journey, including many lands, many peoples, many technologies, and schools in the DOD and the private sector, and I've paid close attention, to the more human aspects of it all. Sure we're a crazy bunch, but there's a reason we're recognizing PTSD in soldiers of war these days. ;)

The UK just voted to extend the war to include Syria tonight.
Yep! Killers suck don't they! And I don't care which side ones referring to, they all equally suck! Luckily there are a few of us smart people running around! I just hope our numbers grow, as we are definitely brighter than those that see it otherwise.
P.S. The Moog player was supposed to be a emoticon in a dunce hat, it was a place holder until I created one, but I'm far too lazy to create it right now, maybe later. Enjoy the keyboard player!
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