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Re:

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:32 pm
by John K
henry quirk wrote:" No need to add a philosophical or moral dimension to that which is just commonsensical ('I don't wanna die, I don't wanna be restrained, etc.').
Seems to me, this is where it's needed the most.

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:00 pm
by henry quirk
Why?

Re: abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theo

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:16 pm
by thedoc
Sometimes just knowing what to do isn't enough, it's knowing a deeper 'why' that helps to give meaning.

Seeing that a flower has bright colors and look pretty in your garden is good but somewhat shallow. When you study the flower and it's relationship to insects and birds it becomes much more interesting and awe inspiring.

Re: abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theo

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:30 pm
by henry quirk
"Sometimes just knowing what to do isn't enough, it's knowing a deeper 'why' that helps to give meaning."

Well, in my experience there is no 'deeper why' (to anything), leaving the meaning of 'this' or 'that' in the hands and mind of he or she who acts.

If we indeed live in a morally dimensioned universe (with a Divine Arbiter just a'waitin' to separate out wheat from chaff) then, yeah, there's a 'deeper why' to everything (anyone for a dissertation on the morality of toasting bread?), but I'm not seein' it.

Re: abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theo

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:04 pm
by thedoc
In HS one year my English teacher was ranting on some popular sayings and she hit on the one "Warm as Toast". Her complaint was that when she got her toast for breakfast it wasn't warm. Apparently when she was growing up the toast was made ahead and set on a plate till everything else was ready, by which time the toast was not warm. In my home we could make toast on demand and have it fresh and hot out of the toaster. She really did turn out to be a bit of a witch, and that made her rant understandable.

Re:

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:28 pm
by HexHammer
henry quirk wrote:Hex,

As I say up-thread: if Joanne is knocked up and wants to abort, then abort away!

Me: not caring' 'why' she got knocked up (rape, consensual sex, whatever).

I only object to havin' to pay for her procedure (if I didn't park my car in her garage, can't see how the status of her garage is my problem).
Ofc, but we make mistakes we somehow regret, then not all might have the money to get an abortion, and we get another problem of women trying weird methods of getting a cheap abortion, often killing both baby and mother in the process, better leeching off your money than having a whole bunch of women in dangerous methods.

Re:

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:40 am
by John K
henry quirk wrote:Why?
There's philosophy in action whether we acknowledge it or not. Why did the lunatics attack me? To steal my stuff. Why did they want my stuff? To stay alive. Don't they know I'll now starve to death? They don't care. You have no choice but to add "philosophical or moral dimensions" to such a scenario.

Re: Re:

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:19 am
by thedoc
HexHammer wrote:
henry quirk wrote:Hex,

As I say up-thread: if Joanne is knocked up and wants to abort, then abort away!

Me: not caring' 'why' she got knocked up (rape, consensual sex, whatever).

I only object to havin' to pay for her procedure (if I didn't park my car in her garage, can't see how the status of her garage is my problem).
Ofc, but we make mistakes we somehow regret, then not all might have the money to get an abortion, and we get another problem of women trying weird methods of getting a cheap abortion, often killing both baby and mother in the process, better leeching off your money than having a whole bunch of women in dangerous methods.

"But if they are to die, then let them do so, and reduce the surplus population." surely you're not going to argue with Dickens?

Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:55 pm
by henry quirk
"we make mistakes we somehow regret"

Yep...I've made my share...I never pass the burden onto others.

Joanne 'makes a mistake' and gets knocked up...she wants to abort...fine by me...'oh, but she can't pay for it'...not my problem....'but she'll resort to risky methods'...that's on her...'that, Mr. Quirk, is inhumane of you, asking her to assume responsibility for her own actions!'...I'm not asking for jack, I'm demanding she take care of her own business and leave me be...'that's unacceptable, Henry'...*shrug*

##

"There's philosophy in action whether we acknowledge it or not. Why did the lunatics attack me? To steal my stuff. Why did they want my stuff? To stay alive. Don't they know I'll now starve to death? They don't care. You have no choice but to add "philosophical or moral dimensions" to such a scenario."


I don't call any of that 'philosophy'...I call it 'thinkin' it through', or, the application of common sense.

Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:16 pm
by henry quirk
"I'm demanding she take care of her own business and leave me be"

I expect other folks to do the same.

Example: I smoke...there's a better than average chance my smoking will hurt me (cancer, emphysema, etc.)...can't see how any of 'you' are responsible for the consequences of 'my' poor choices (my 'mistakes').

Re:

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:24 pm
by John K
henry quirk wrote: John K said: "There's philosophy in action whether we acknowledge it or not. Why did the lunatics attack me? To steal my stuff. Why did they want my stuff? To stay alive. Don't they know I'll now starve to death? They don't care. You have no choice but to add "philosophical or moral dimensions" to such a scenario."


I don't call any of that 'philosophy'...I call it 'thinkin' it through', or, the application of common sense.
But most do. If it's not 'philosophy,' what is it?

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:37 pm
by henry quirk
"If it's not 'philosophy,' what is it?"

As I say: 'thinkin' it through'.

Exposing a personal prejudice: when I hear 'philosophy', what comes to mind are naive boys and girls dickin' around with jargon...what comes to mind are folks too timid to 'do', folks who spend all their time talkin'...what comes to mind are glass-brittle intellects not much good for anything.

'Thinkin' it through', on the other hand, is a skill, an activity, available to all.

'Thinkin' it through' is usually the first step in 'doing' sumthin' (instead of just figuratively chasing one's tail in endless loops).

As I say: it's a personal prejudice.

Re: abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theo

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:26 pm
by thedoc
One thing I don't understand is that when one person states an opinion as a personal preference, implying that it is only intended to apply to that person, others will criticize it as if it were to apply to everyone in general. What part of "personal opinion" or "personal prejudice" do those other people not understand, or are they just trying to pick a fight. If that is the case they are best ignored.

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:42 pm
by henry quirk
It's the communitarian impulse, I think.

Everybody's gotta walk the same line.

In this way, the low are raised up; the high are brought down.

Equity is the standard and to hell with excellence or idiosyncrasy.

Re:

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:27 pm
by thedoc
henry quirk wrote:It's the communitarian impulse, I think.

Everybody's gotta walk the same line.

In this way, the low are raised up; the high are brought down.

Equity is the standard and to hell with excellence or idiosyncrasy.

Along those same lines is the claim by the pervert that everyone else does it or wants to do it, so their perverted appetites are normal after all.