Killing living beings for food is a sin

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dattaswami
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Killing living beings for food is a sin

Post by dattaswami »

SCRIPTURAL WAY OF CORRECTING DEFECTIVE NATURE

[Dr. Nikhil asked Swami that several participants in a spiritual meeting quoted the Veda and other scriptures, which speak in favor of non-vegetarian food. They asked him about Swami speaking against non-vegetarian food. Swami gave the following message in reply.]

Eating the non-vegetarian food is one issue and killing a living being, to collect the flesh out of it, is another issue. The first issue does not involve any sin because the non-vegetarian food or flesh or meat contains the same ingredients as those of a vegetarian item. The same carbohydrates, the same proteins, the same vitamins, the same minerals etc., exist in both meat and vegetables. Therefore, to eat the flesh of a living being, which died naturally through old age, is not a sin. Kapalikas (a sect of Hinduism), eat the dead bodies and therefore, they are not considered as sinners since this sect of religion is respected.

But, the flesh of the living being, which dies due to old age, is not recommended because generally the death of an old living being happens due to some disease. Then, the flesh of such a living being is not good for the reasons of health. But, the living being might have been killed through some accident or by some cruel animal and the flesh left over may be hygienic. In such case, the non-vegetarian food need not be rejected on the ground of sin because the eater of such flesh neither killed it nor had any intention to kill it. In any case, there is no sin in eating the non-vegetarian food provided you neither kill the living being nor you should be responsible for killing it.

You may say that you eat the meat but you did not kill the living being directly with your hands. Since you eat the meat, you have become the consumer of the meat. The butcher, who kills the animals or birds, kills these animals or birds only for the sake of consumers in his business. Therefore, even though you did not kill the living being directly with your hands, you have become the indirect supporter of it by eating the meat. Hence, you have to share the sin. If you find the killed living being through an accident and if you collect its flesh, you do not share the sin. But, beware that your taste of such accidental meat may increase slowly and you may kill the animal directly or indirectly in course of time for the meat! Hence, it is better to avoid the meat from the beginning itself.

The sin comes only if you kill the living being directly or become responsible for its killing indirectly and you have to face the punishment of such a sin. You may find the Veda or the scriptures speaking about the non-vegetarian food and killing of a living being in sacrifice. By this, you should not think that the Veda or the scripture provokes you to kill the animal. In fact, the scripture controls you to kill the animal by suggesting the sacrifice to be done in a specified season like spring only (Vasante Vasantejyotishaayajeta…). The sacrifice called ‘Jyotishtoma’ should be performed only in spring season. By this, you control the killing of animal in other seasons.

You cannot totally oppose the killing of animal in the beginning itself. Instead of killing the animal every day or every week, you can allow the killing of animal once in a year only. This reduces the killing of the animal gradually and finally, you can avoid the killing forever. This is just like running along a running bull for some distance before you control it. We cannot control the running bull in the very first step itself. You have to run along with it for sometime before you control it. Such running of a person should not be misunderstood as encouragement of running. Even if the person does not run, the bull will run. Even if the scripture does not advise the killing of animal in the sacrifice to be performed once in a year, the killing of the animal for the meat will not be stopped.

In fact, the killing of the animal in the absence of such instruction will take place more frequently. Shankara had clarified this point in His commentary by saying that the defective nature of the human being (Pravrutti) is not encouraged by the Veda. Following the defective nature of the human being, the Veda suggests the sacrifice. This does not mean that the Veda initiates the defective nature in the human being. Shankara said, ‘Shastramjnapakamnatukarakam’. This means that the scripture gives the advice based on the naturally existing defective nature in the human being and that the scripture is not the initiator of the defective nature.

Scripture Aims at Total Eradication of Defective Nature with Time

In fact, if you analyze carefully, the advice given by the scripture is also in the direction of total eradication of the defective nature in course of time. The scripture says that the fisherman should not catch fish in the river Ganga. By this, the scripture controls the catching of fish in one place at least. The scripture further says that the fisherman should not catch the fish on the days of Divine festivals at least. By this, the scripture is controlling the killing of fish on some days at least.

Finally, the scripture says that you should not kill the fish at any place on any day and such stage is called as ‘Mahavratam’, which is irrespective of place and time. You should not mistake that the scripture encourages the killing of fish on other days and in other rivers. This is the wrong side of the conclusion and this is said to be the misunderstanding of the scripture. The correct side is that the scripture tries to control the sin gradually by restricting in one place and on some days at least. Allowing the sin on other days does not mean encouraging the sin. Control brings the reduction of sin and slowly the sin can be completely eradicated.

Bhavabhooti says in Uttararamacharitam that the cow is killed when the guest comes (Eshagowhmatamatayate…). This is the indication of reduction of sin, which means that you should not kill the cow for your sake on other days. This avoids killing the cow frequently for the sake of your food. The complete control of the sin can be found in the Veda that the person killing a cow should be shot dead (Goghnamseesenaviddhyamah…). Therefore, the scripture always tries to control the sin and never encourages the sin. Eating the meat is not a sin if you limit the vision to the process of eating and the eaten material. But, you indirectly encourage the killing of animal by eating the meat since the animals are only killed for the sake of consumers.

The meaning of the ‘Maamsa’ (meat) is that you will become the animal and the presently killed animal will become the butcher in the next birth (Maam sah yathaa hinasti pashchaat janmanitat ha aham tam hanishyaami…). The animal during the process of killing thinks that the butcher should become the animal and it should become the butcher in the next life so that the butcher should understand the pain in the process of killing. The medical science has already investigated that the proteins in the meat are secondary and therefore, the flesh is not a healthy food. The proteins in the vegetables are primary and are good for health. If all the humanity is confined to vegetarian food only, there is no dearth of food on this earth because the omnipotent God is capable of supplying the vegetarian food to all the living beings.

Of course, there will be very little pain even to the plants while cutting the vegetables and leaves. But, this pain is extremely negligible compared to the pain experienced by the animals and birds in the process of killing. The plants and trees also should not be cut. Only the fruits and leaves can be plucked. Parvati was called Aparna since She did penance eating the leaves, which fell from the trees and She never even plucked those leaves. This is the extreme step of non-violence.

However, the negligible sin can be overlooked like the minor error in scientific experiments. Somebody has beaten a person. That is also pain. But, killing the same person gives extreme pain. There is quantitative difference in the sin. By qualitative similarity, you should not say that beating is equal to killing. The non-vegetarians argue that the plants also experience pain in the process of plucking the leaves and hence, killing the animal is equal sin. Both are sins, but, both are not quantitatively equal. The extremely minor sin can be overlooked and neglected. Therefore, such argument is not valid.

You should carefully understand the scripture before you quote it. If you do not properly understand it, it becomes misquotation. Hence, the analysis is important. The scripture, analysis and experience are the three sides of the authority. The analysis is the most important. The experience of a defective person may be wrong and cannot be an authority. The scripture also may be wrong due to the interpolation of some mischievous person. Only the analysis can decide the truth. When Swami Vivekananda was speaking some point, somebody pointed out that Shankara said the same point in opposing way.

Then, Vivekananda told that Shankara may be wrong. What is the meaning of this? Shankara can never be wrong. But, some ignorant person might have introduced a wrong statement in the commentary of Shankara and that statement may be the opposing point. Therefore, every statement of the commentary of Shankara should be analyzed with perfect sharp logic and scientific analysis. We find often people saying that ‘so and so’ told in a different way. You should not care for anybody except for your sharp logical analysis.

Sometimes, you might have misunderstood the scripture as said above. Scripture like the Veda was never interpolated by anybody since it was preserved through recitation from the beginning. In such case, misunderstanding of the scripture is possible. Such misunderstanding also vanishes by the sharp analysis. Therefore, accept anything only when it is filtered through the perfect scientific analysis.
popeye1945
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Re: Killing living beings for food is a sin

Post by popeye1945 »

If you hadn't been living off the living in the past you would not be here to post this nonsense. The Ouroboros, the snake consuming his own tail. Greek symbolism. What I might ask do you eat.
promethean75
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Re: Killing living beings for food is a sin

Post by promethean75 »

of course!

Now I know how it is!
One must eat the other
Who runs free before him
Put them right into his mouth
While fantasizing the beauty of his movements
A sensation not unlike
Slapping yourself in the face...
Iwannaplato
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Re: Killing living beings for food is a sin

Post by Iwannaplato »

dattaswami wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:37 am
Eating vegetables kills animals. Ploughing the fields, kills animals. Many other parts of vegetable production include the killing of animals. Less animals that meat production kills, but it kills animals.

Why is that ok?
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Sculptor
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Re: Killing living beings for food is a sin

Post by Sculptor »

dattaswami wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:37 am SCRIPTURAL WAY OF CORRECTING DEFECTIVE NATURE

[Dr. Nikhil asked Swami that several participants in a spiritual meeting quoted the Veda and other scriptures, which speak in favor of non-vegetarian food. They asked him about Swami speaking against non-vegetarian food. Swami gave the following message in reply.]

I am always amazed that humans love to impose their own personal moral codes upon nature to show how wrong god is to design nature the way god intended.

Meat eating.
Protective toxicity in plants.
Gender fluidity including dysphoria and homosexuality.

All of these are present in nature but religious folk seem to think that god was wrong to include them in nature.
lunch today
lunch today
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lunch tomorrow
lunch tomorrow
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Last edited by Sculptor on Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sculptor
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Re: Killing living beings for food is a sin

Post by Sculptor »

Agriculture has been a disaster for the earth and the humans that have to eat the products of it.

Agriculture has caused wholesale destruction of habitats, desertification, and drops in species diversity.
The Middle east, the so called cradle of civilization was once a verdant paradise before the plough which initially created the hanging gardens of Babylon but soon tuned to desert.
SImilar problems are see all over the Indus valley and the cancer of wheat and lentil growing has devastated the nature. And for what ??? More and more people whose lives are short and often brutal.

Faced with unbridled need, more land goes under the plough creating millions of square miles of monoculture of soy or wheat.
Foods which humans are not well adapted to consume and this has led to chronic preventable disease; Type2 Diabetes, atherosclerosis, heart disease, and Alzheimers disease, all caused by too much carbohydrate, and not enough real human diet that we are adapted to eat.

The real human diet is fish, eggs, meat, and low carb high fibre vegetation.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Killing living beings for food is a sin

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

'Gender dysphoria' in the animal kingdom? That would have to be the most ridiculous example of anthropomorphism I"ve ever seen. I wonder how it's diagnosed :lol: It's also deeply offensive to other animals. Other animals are far more sensible than idiot humans who follow idiot social media fads.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Killing living beings for food is a sin

Post by Iwannaplato »

Sculptor wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:25 pm Agriculture has been a disaster for the earth and the humans that have to eat the products of it.

Agriculture has caused wholesale destruction of habitats, desertification, and drops in species diversity.
The Middle east, the so called cradle of civilization was once a verdant paradise before the plough which initially created the hanging gardens of Babylon but soon tuned to desert.
SImilar problems are see all over the Indus valley and the cancer of wheat and lentil growing has devastated the nature. And for what ??? More and more people whose lives are short and often brutal.

Faced with unbridled need, more land goes under the plough creating millions of square miles of monoculture of soy or wheat.
Foods which humans are not well adapted to consume and this has led to chronic preventable disease; Type2 Diabetes, atherosclerosis, heart disease, and Alzheimers disease, all caused by too much carbohydrate, and not enough real human diet that we are adapted to eat.

The real human diet is fish, eggs, meat, and low carb high fibre vegetation.
The seas are running out of fish, raising meat requires agriculture, wild meat isn't enough, and eggs require agriculture, generally. yes, on humble scales we can avoid that, but if we focus on animal proteins, we need large swathes of farmland. You more or less described my diet, so I'm all for it. But is most humans ate that diet, it would not reduce agriculture at all.
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Sculptor
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Re: Killing living beings for food is a sin

Post by Sculptor »

Iwannaplato wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:16 pm
Sculptor wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:25 pm Agriculture has been a disaster for the earth and the humans that have to eat the products of it.

Agriculture has caused wholesale destruction of habitats, desertification, and drops in species diversity.
The Middle east, the so called cradle of civilization was once a verdant paradise before the plough which initially created the hanging gardens of Babylon but soon tuned to desert.
SImilar problems are see all over the Indus valley and the cancer of wheat and lentil growing has devastated the nature. And for what ??? More and more people whose lives are short and often brutal.

Faced with unbridled need, more land goes under the plough creating millions of square miles of monoculture of soy or wheat.
Foods which humans are not well adapted to consume and this has led to chronic preventable disease; Type2 Diabetes, atherosclerosis, heart disease, and Alzheimers disease, all caused by too much carbohydrate, and not enough real human diet that we are adapted to eat.

The real human diet is fish, eggs, meat, and low carb high fibre vegetation.
The seas are running out of fish, raising meat requires agriculture, wild meat isn't enough, and eggs require agriculture, generally. yes, on humble scales we can avoid that, but if we focus on animal proteins, we need large swathes of farmland. You more or less described my diet, so I'm all for it. But is most humans ate that diet, it would not reduce agriculture at all.
1) Fish can be got from rivers, and the seas are vast. It should not be beyond the wit of man to husband the oceans carefully.
2) No raising meat does not require agriculture. 2/3 of all land are arable and can only be used to pasture. Pasture best mimics the natural progress and cycles of nature; with benefits of species diversity unachievable with he plough. The crime is ploughing the land to feed cattle in sheds. This is a Western and recent aberration.
3) What we need most of all is fewer humans, and destroying the land just to shovel bad quality food in their guts is no way to run a planet.

THe food industry is poisoning us with addictive, processed food.
dattaswami
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Re: Killing living beings for food is a sin

Post by dattaswami »

Sculptor wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:25 pm Agriculture has been a disaster for the earth and the humans that have to eat the products of it.

Agriculture has caused wholesale destruction of habitats, desertification, and drops in species diversity.
The Middle east, the so called cradle of civilization was once a verdant paradise before the plough which initially created the hanging gardens of Babylon but soon tuned to desert.
SImilar problems are see all over the Indus valley and the cancer of wheat and lentil growing has devastated the nature. And for what ??? More and more people whose lives are short and often brutal.

Faced with unbridled need, more land goes under the plough creating millions of square miles of monoculture of soy or wheat.
Foods which humans are not well adapted to consume and this has led to chronic preventable disease; Type2 Diabetes, atherosclerosis, heart disease, and Alzheimers disease, all caused by too much carbohydrate, and not enough real human diet that we are adapted to eat.

The real human diet is fish, eggs, meat, and low carb high fibre vegetation.
You should not worry about the universal application because, showing this as an excuse, we want to continue with non-vegetarian food. If all the souls on the earth become vegetarians, I guarantee that God will provide vegetarian food sufficiently for all the souls.
We cannot compare ourselves to wild animals because animals have no understanding power and intelligence for sharp analysis. Non-vegetarian food is said by the doctors to be the source of several dangerous diseases. Health is the important wealth.



This point is told as the climax of Pravrutti-ethics. “Ahiṃsā Paramo Dharmaḥ” meaning that non-violence is the highest justice and violence is the highest injustice. In view of such climax importance given to non-violence, it is very difficult to find out an amicable solution for the problem presented by you. You have to examine whether things are so tightly closed from all sides without any trace of alternatives.

If the situation is such, we can only say that their cycle of lives is nothing but the cycle of wild animals living in the forest. If one enters such a wild-animal like cycle, the cycle continues forever and there is no salvation for such births. Even in the case of wild animals in forests, alternative vegetable food is provided by God if the souls wish to reform themselves. There must have been such alternatives in the case of these human beings, who are far far advanced than wild animals.

If such alternatives are absent, we have to think that it is a part of hell on earth. Both hell and heaven exist on earth also to give the fruits of intensive bad and good deeds. Please don’t misunderstand Me that I am very rigid here about the authority of the scripture. If you stand in the place of the animal that is killed for food, you will understand the pain received by the innocent animal, thereby you can realize how much sinful the deed is.
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Lacewing
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Re: Killing living beings for food is a sin

Post by Lacewing »

I eat meat like lots of other animals do. My body craves it... not every day, but once in awhile. When I go too long without it, I feel depleted. I trust my instincts, and I choose humanely-raised/natural/organic as much as possible.

It would be ridiculous to call that a 'sin'.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Killing living beings for food is a sin

Post by Iwannaplato »

Lacewing wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 4:26 am I eat meat like lots of other animals do. My body craves it... not every day, but once in awhile. When I go too long without it, I feel depleted. I trust my instincts, and I choose humanely-raised/natural/organic as much as possible.

It would be ridiculous to call that a 'sin'.
I agree with you. I do dislike this facet of reality, however.
popeye1945
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Re: Killing living beings for food is a sin

Post by popeye1945 »

Life harsh reality, life lives upon life.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Killing living beings for food is a sin

Post by Iwannaplato »

popeye1945 wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:09 am Life harsh reality, life lives upon life.
Yes, and life includes reactions to what is. Emotions, desires, these are also.
Of course, I know you know this. Or at least I assume you do because it seemed so in earlier posts.
I say it however because often when we are told 'the way things are' especially in response to what get called sometimes negative emotions, it is as if there is a problem with our reactions.
popeye1945
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Re: Killing living beings for food is a sin

Post by popeye1945 »

Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:16 am
popeye1945 wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:09 am Life harsh reality, life lives upon life.
Yes, and life includes reactions to what is. Emotions, desires, these are also.
Of course, I know you know this. Or at least I assume you do because it seemed so in earlier posts.
I say it however because often when we are told 'the way things are', especially in response to what get called sometimes negative emotions, it is as if there is a problem with our reactions.
The irony of this reality is that in order to live a human life one must accept in one's core this harsh reality, this is nature red in tooth and claw. The question becomes how to live a life of compassion in nature's nightmare. Necessity dictates to a significant degree one cannot change the nature of nature. We can respond to it in a humble and humane way knowing it is the hard lot of all organisms.
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