Why are people involved in killing each other in the name of God?

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dattaswami
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Why are people involved in killing each other in the name of God?

Post by dattaswami »

The original founders of the religions were Human Incarnations of the same God like Krishna, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha etc. Every religion says that their God alone created this entire earth or this entire humanity. Unfortunately, there is only one earth and this proves that there is only one God mentioned by all the religions. Since God is one and the same, there cannot be contradicting concepts between different religions. But we find some contradictions and people are divided based on these contradictions. This division leads to quarrels and finally people end up killing each other. These contradictions cannot be from God because there is only one God as said above. These contradictions were introduced into the religions only by some misinterpretations made by the followers, in the name of God. Hence, the killing is also being done in the name of God.

The Quran says that you should protect even followers of other religions and convey the message of Allah to him. It is left to him whether to follow the message or not. Hiranyakashipu worshipped Lord Shiva and his son Prahlada worshipped Lord Vishnu. Lord Vishnu killed Hiranyakashipu not because he worshipped Lord Shiva but because he tortured Prahlada to change his religion of worshipping Vishnu. Infact Shiva is Vishnu (Shivashcha Naarayanah—Veda). The conclusion of this is that God will punish you if you torture a devotee of any religion obstructing the freedom of his religion. Prahlada did not force his father to worship Vishnu. The same God exists in different forms in different religions. Hinduism is a mini-model of this unity in diversity that should exist in the universe as Universal Spirituality.
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Lacewing
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Re: Why are people involved in killing each other in the name of God?

Post by Lacewing »

dattaswami wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:51 pm The original founders of the religions were Human Incarnations of the same God like Krishna, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha etc.
Thank you for your thoughtful post. Here is what it inspires me to comment and ask in general, not particularly directed at you... although I welcome your response, of course.

I often ask: Why wouldn't every human being and living/non-living thing be an incarnation and expression of the divine energy that someone might call 'god'?

Human beings might see that some incarnations/expressions within their known culture demonstrate more wisdom and light than others, so they might put this example on a pedestal and use it to create a model of their idea of 'god' in their own language and image. Further, they might claim to know the mind of this god and use it to justify their own desires for superiority, control, or vengeance over others.

It simply doesn't make sense and should be obvious that divine energy is so much larger than any of these small groups and stories. So, why are human beings so content to model such clearly limited ideas of god on themselves and their own cultures? Are they that small-minded (and unable to reason beyond that), or do they prefer to create with imagination what cannot be known? Even when such imagination grows to obscure truth almost completely.
dattaswami
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Re: Why are people involved in killing each other in the name of God?

Post by dattaswami »

Lacewing wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:27 pm

I often ask: Why wouldn't every human being and living/non-living thing be an incarnation and expression of the divine energy that someone might call 'god'?
You are not God, you are soul alone. Soul is not God. Soul becomes God , when God charges that soul by entering into it as in the case of Human incarnations of God like, Krishna, Rama, Jesus, Muhammad, Shankara , Sai Baba etc etc, such human incarnations alone is God and not all the souls in the world!

When the disciples of Sankara thought that they are also the Lord, Sankara swallowed the molten lead and asked the disciples to do the same. Then they fell on the feet of Sankara. Then Sankara told "Shivah Kevaloham", which means that only He is Shiva.

If every man is already God what is the use of all this ‘Sadhana’? Who is to get salvation? If you are already God, do you mean that God gets salvation? If there is no salvation, why all this sadhana, (effort)? Why Prahlada did not accept his father as God? Narasimha killed Hiranya Kashipu. Both of them are Gods. Then God killed God, which means God committed suicide!

Then Shankara preached them that He alone is God (Shivaha kevaloham). The word ‘kevala’ denotes that Shankara alone is God and not everybody. Then, the disciples realized the true knowledge and surrendered to Him by falling on His feet (Bhava Shankara deshika me sharanam). Every advaita philosopher should realize this truth from the practical incident performed by Shankara. One should know that practical knowledge is more valid than theoretical knowledge, which can be easily misunderstood. The misunderstood theory is always rectified by practical demonstration.

The human incarnation is a direct proof of the unimaginable God. In the case of miracles, which infer the unimaginable source, the proof is indirect as inference. The unimaginable power of God is exhibited in three ways, which are seen in knowledge, strength and activity as said by the Veda (Jnana bala kriyaacha). The unimaginable knowledge is seen in the Gita, the unimaginable strength and activity are seen in lifting the huge mountain by the tender finger. The knowledge is more important for any human being because it clarifies all the doubts giving the correct concept and correct guidance to achieve the grace of God. The strength and activity denote only the existence of unimaginable God.

The concept of human incarnation should be isolated from the forcible entry of God in to the world through worldly logic since God enters the world by His free will in the case of human incarnation. No human being can become human incarnation by His aspiration because God enters a human being whenever He likes to do the activity that guides the humanity. In fact, as long as the aspiration to become God exists, one can never become human incarnation. Hanuman is the best example in this concept.

Shankara also clearly stated that a specific human being becomes God by the free will and grace of God alone (Eshwaraanugrahaadeva...). The word ‘alone’ (Eva) indicates that the free will of God is the only cause. Once God decides to enter this world through a human form, the selection of a specific devoted human being is based on the deservingness of such devotee. The fundamental basis of the deservingness is not to have the aspiration to become God but to have the aspiration only to serve the God. Your proposal is always disposed by God. This concept can be very clearly realized through the example of Hanuman.

When God enters the human being as human incarnation, not only He is unimaginable but also the process of His entry is unimaginable. The entry of God is not only in the soul (awareness) to give unimaginable knowledge to the humanity but also in the body as seen in the unimaginable process of lifting the mountain by the tender finger (Antar bahishcha... Veda). This concept of monism (Advaita) indicating the oneness of God and human form is important for the devotees, who worship the human incarnation as God. In this angle, Shankara stands. The human being in which God exists should not think that it is God. It should always think that God is in it for the sake of humanity. If it thinks that it is really God, the human part of the human incarnation is insulted like Parashurama.

The human part should be always in dualism (Dvaita) as preached by Ramanuja and Madhva. Both these angles should be maintained separately since one angle spoils the other. The devotees and human part are human beings only and therefore, both these angles are for the welfare of the humanity only. The Veda states this point very clearly by saying that God remained in His original form (Sat) and simultaneously became the medium (Tyat) in to which He entered (Satcha tyatcha). This can be understood by the example of electrified wire. The electricity in the electrified wire is in its original form of stream of electrons (Sat), which is totally different from the chain of metallic crystals or wire and at the same time, the electricity is identified with the wire because the wire exhibits the property (shock) of the electricity anywhere touched.
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Lacewing
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Re: Why are people involved in killing each other in the name of God?

Post by Lacewing »

dattaswami wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:23 pm
Lacewing wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:27 pm I often ask: Why wouldn't every human being and living/non-living thing be an incarnation and expression of the divine energy that someone might call 'god'?
You are not God, you are soul alone. Soul is not God. Soul becomes God , when God charges that soul by entering into it as in the case of Human incarnations of God like, Krishna, Rama, Jesus, Muhammad, Shankara , Sai Baba etc etc, such human incarnations alone is God and not all the souls in the world!
Ah, so you're making claims and believing stories like so many people have been taught to do by one culture or another. How do you know any of this?

Why would God create humans who are so limited that they do not pulse with God energy like all of creation does?

These hierarchical stories are written by men for men. Where are all the women incarnations of god? Why is God a 'he'? Why would God have a gender? It is man who gave God a gender so that man can feel superior and godlike through association.

These things do not make sense because they are the ideas of human men... NOT of a god. There may be much wisdom and insight in various teachings because divine spirit is naturally accessible and pulsing throughout all (why wouldn't it be)? But stories are veils that thicken rather than clearing.

Here's something we could all agree on that serves no one/culture/story in particular: Everything is energy. A web of connected energy throughout all. No separation / no division. Particles with no distinction or individual agenda, yet capable of being manifested into countless forms. So why not consider that ALL is not a particular product or agenda of a particular separate God, but rather this god-energy is continually manifesting and flowing throughout all? Truly, why wouldn't it be? And why would there need to be more of a purpose than that?
Walker
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Re: Why are people involved in killing each other in the name of God?

Post by Walker »

Question: Why are people involved in killing each other in the name of God?

Answer: Because the prophet who inspires them named his swords for their killing effectiveness.
dattaswami
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Re: Why are people involved in killing each other in the name of God?

Post by dattaswami »

Walker wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 5:50 pm Question: Why are people involved in killing each other in the name of God?

Answer: Because the prophet who inspires them named his swords for their killing effectiveness.
Q’ran says that a Muslim should protect even the enemy belonging to other religion. It says that a Muslim can speak about the preaching of Allah to the enemy and then leave the enemy in protected place. It never says that the religion should be spread by violence. It speaks about the war for justice, which is not the war for propagation of religion. For that matter, Gita arose only from the state of war, which was fought for establishing justice.

Even Bible says that the rigid fools who do not realize should be thrown to the liquid fire, which is violence. Therefore, violence is not wrong. But the cause of violence should be perfectly justified. When Mohammad came, there were three hundred religions, which were quarelling among themselves with lot of violence. He tried His best by preaching the concept of one God. There was no alternative way to subside the violence between them.

Actually after Jesus, the concept of human incarnation was fully realized but this concept was exploited by cheaters. Every fellow became a prophet and declared himself as the human incarnation. The followers started preaching that particular form is only the one God. You can imagine easily the situation at the time. When violence is justified, it is called as punishment given by God. If the violence is not justified, it becomes Chaos due to egoism of a demon, which can be subsided only by divine punishment. Actually at the end, Hinduism speaks about the incarnation of Kalki and Christianity speaks about the final punishment given by God. Both these situations are of terrible violence only.

The last sort of God is only punishment, which can alone bring peace at least temporally for some time when the world is filled with brutal conservative fools, who are the wild beasts in the human form. The Lord says in Bible “Revenge is mine” which means the Lord punishes the unjust people.
The Lord said in Gita that He will destroy the evil person (Vinasaya cha….). God is double-edged knife. Not only He protects the justice but also He punishes the injustice. A rich weak human being may protect the justice but may not be able to punish the injustice. A poor strong fellow may punish the injustice but not protect the justice by giving compensation. Thus, the human beings have limitations but the Lord is strong as well as rich and therefore is capable in both sides.

This is the meaning when Jesus mentioned about the divine kingdom on the earth. He means that one may escape the king on this earth but can never escape God. When you are affected by injustice, pray for compensation only (“Ask that shall be given”-Bible) and not for the punishment of enemy. You will be compensated. When you do not pray for the punishment of enemy, you will see the punishment of your enemy soon from God. You may react to your enemy with equal or double force.
Dubious
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Re: Why are people involved in killing each other in the name of God?

Post by Dubious »

...because god never objects against anything we do...or haven't you noticed?
popeye1945
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Re: Why are people involved in killing each other in the name of God?

Post by popeye1945 »

Seconding the notion Dubious!

"To god, all things are right and good, only to man somethings are and somethings are not." Heraclitus

All man-made systems, structure and institutions are biological extensions of man, expressions of his nature. You guessed it, the bible, holy scriptures, etc. and his gods all biological extensions of man. His gods are as fucked up as he is.
popeye1945
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Re: Why are people involved in killing each other in the name of God?

Post by popeye1945 »

popeye1945 wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:34 am Seconding the notion Dubious!

"To god, all things are right and good, only to man somethings are and somethings are not." Heraclitus

All man-made systems, structure and institutions are biological extensions of man, expressions of his nature. You guessed it, the bible, holy scriptures, etc. and his gods all biological extensions of man. His gods are as fucked up as he is, it couldn't be any other way.
Age
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Re: Why are people involved in killing each other in the name of God?

Post by Age »

dattaswami wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:51 pm The original founders of the religions were Human Incarnations of the same God like Krishna, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha etc. Every religion says that their God alone created this entire earth or this entire humanity. Unfortunately, there is only one earth and this proves that there is only one God mentioned by all the religions.
LOL
LOL
LOL

One earth does NOT prove that there is only one God.

ONLY A, or one, FOOL would come to this conclusion.

Now, you might like to PROVE how one earth PROVES that there is only one God, which we would LOVE TO SEE.

Or, you might have realized just how FOOLISH YOUR CLAIM is here now, and so NOT even reply to what I SAID and POINTED OUT here.

We will WAIT, and SEE.

dattaswami wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:51 pm Since God is one and the same, there cannot be contradicting concepts between different religions.
What ACTUAL PROOF do you have that there IS A God, which could NOT be REFUTED?
dattaswami wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:51 pm But we find some contradictions and people are divided based on these contradictions. This division leads to quarrels and finally people end up killing each other. These contradictions cannot be from God because there is only one God as said above.
This does NOT LOGICALLY FOLLOW and is just NONSENSE.

For it is 'you', "dattaswami", who CLAIMS that God created EVERY one/thing, which would mean that ALL contradictions do ACTUALLY come from God.

Or, are 'you' now going to CLAIM that God did NOT create EVERY one/thing?
dattaswami wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:51 pm These contradictions were introduced into the religions only by some misinterpretations made by the followers, in the name of God. Hence, the killing is also being done in the name of God.
Do 'you', "dattaswami", make MISINTERPRETATIONS, or are 'you' ABOVE and BEYOND doing 'this'?
dattaswami wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:51 pm The Quran says that you should protect even followers of other religions and convey the message of Allah to him. It is left to him whether to follow the message or not. Hiranyakashipu worshipped Lord Shiva and his son Prahlada worshipped Lord Vishnu. Lord Vishnu killed Hiranyakashipu not because he worshipped Lord Shiva but because he tortured Prahlada to change his religion of worshipping Vishnu. Infact Shiva is Vishnu (Shivashcha Naarayanah—Veda). The conclusion of this is that God will punish you if you torture a devotee of any religion obstructing the freedom of his religion. Prahlada did not force his father to worship Vishnu. The same God exists in different forms in different religions. Hinduism is a mini-model of this unity in diversity that should exist in the universe as Universal Spirituality.
Are 'you' even AWARE "dattaswami" it is BECAUSE of people like 'you', and 'your' OWN MISINTERPRETED BELIEFS and 'teachings', WHY some of 'you', human beings, KILL "each other"?
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