Good Art needs Conflict of some kind?

[Pluto]

I saw this and thought it a bit limited in its outlook of what art is and could be. Yes I can see how conflict would require an equally grand gesture in terms of an art response, (Picasso's Guernica) but to say art cannot flourish in a perfect society is short-sighted I believe and quite telling as to how one might think of art. Art that is born out of conflict is perhaps reactionary, in that it relies and requires the conflict in order to exist. Can art coming from love of somekind not reach the heights one considers as having being reached with the aid of conflict? I think so. But love of what, perhaps. It seems we are talking about the importance of the source of the art, the place from which it is born.

http://www.cultureandconflict.org.uk/ne ... d-for-art/

[thedoc]

Did Bob Ross, 'The Joy of Painting' PBS, ever produce any art? Please include a 'Yes or No' with any rational you choose to provide.

[Pluto]

Did Bob Ross, 'The Joy of Painting' PBS, ever produce any art? Please include a 'Yes or No' with any rational you choose to provide.

No, the work made for the show are pictures not art. Here he is a picture-maker. But perhaps outside the show he made art, who knows. My brother is anti-art but I recently learned that he watched Bob regularly, because it was so relaxing to watch, he said. So maybe the show was art in someway but not the pictures. What do you think?

[Impenitent]

who says "art" is limited to paint and canvas?

-Imp

[thedoc]

What do you think?

Bob Ross developed a technique used with his particular set of materials. Perhaps his art was the show itself, as an inspiration for others to try something they may never have tried before. In one very important way Bob Ross's death was a loss to the art world, if only for the fact that he provided a means for others to express themselves. At one time I had most of his shows on video tape, but they are gone now. As far as his show being relaxing, he was described as having a 'lullaby voice', which was very soothing.

[thedoc]

Art does not always need conflict, depending on how you define it, but it does need to say something or move the viewer in some way. Even if it only draws the viewer into the scene in contemplation.

[Pluto]

who says "art" is limited to paint and canvas?

-Imp

No one here has said that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-L5RDm8oDs

[Impenitent]

the conflict (the act of creation) itself is the art

-Imp

[thedoc]

Does the purpose of the work determine whether it is 'Art' or not. Can art be merely decorative? I believe some would say that real art must stir some strong emotional response in the viewer, but what if the intention is to be soothing and relaxing to the viewer.

[Pluto]

the conflict (the act of creation) itself is the art

-Imp

Okay, how do you see the act of creation as a conflict? Competing forces?

[Pluto]

Does the purpose of the work determine whether it is 'Art' or not. Can art be merely decorative? I believe some would say that real art must stir some strong emotional response in the viewer, but what if the intention is to be soothing and relaxing to the viewer.

I think Matisse's work was quite decorative, but in the context of WW2 maybe that was the purpose. Everything can be art; since Duchamp, as Groys says: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYdFgTeHZEI

Yes, some would say so, but soothing and relaxing, in a society which is not could be quite radical. I think the context in which the work is made is important. Soothing and relaxing are okay, but I think there needs to be 'direction'. It needs to go somewhere. And that place 'somewhere' must be already built into the work somehow.

(In the link above Groys says something very good about how art is similar to Religion and Philosophy).

[Pluto]

From the text - Is the Magic Gone? Weber’s “Disenchantment of the World” and its Implications for Art in Today’s World - By Kristina Karin Shull

Is there a chance that art may still offer ritual or magic as an alternative to the current disenchantment of the world? Weber notes that with the “development of intellectualism and rationalization…[art] provides a salvation from the routines of everyday life.”

[thedoc]

I have been reading Joceph Campbell on Mythology and one of the points is that mythology is no longer working for humanity. One of the reasons is that many of the existing Myths were written in terms that refer to hunter gatherers or early farming comunities and there is little imagry that relates to modern daily life. Campbells premise was that it is for the artist to create images that will relate the myth to people of the time, and one would assume that this would be an ongoing process for people of any time. So artists of all genra are to be reproducing the myths and giving people a means to relate to the world as it is, not as it was. FYI, I relate Mythology and Religion together as the latter grew out of the former and relies on it for it's fundamental beliefs. In this regard then it is up to the artist to reinvent Myth/Religion as we go along to keep it current. BTW, there are 2 books and movies that you might enjoy in this regard. 'Dinner with a Perfict Stranger' and 'Another Perfect Stranger' by David Gregory and films by Jefferson Moore. In a way they are retelling the Mythology of Jesus in a modern setting, one in a resturant with a Lawyer and the other on an airplane flight with an artist. Jefferson Moore went on to produce another movie along these lines 'The Perfect Gift', "What if the World Threw You a Birthday Party, and You Weren't Invited?" In previous times Myths and stories were carried by oral tradition and could grow and evolve to suit the time and place. With the invention, and wide use, of writing and the printing press Myth and stories were nailed down to the printed page and could no longer grow and evolve. The Koran is a good example of a static mythology, every printed copy must include the original Arabic Text and must be true to the original, there is no room for change or growth. The same is true of Myth, it has been written down and preserved as it was without change and as a result, has not kept up with the needs of humanity.

[Impenitent]

the conflict (the act of creation) itself is the art

-Imp

Okay, how do you see the act of creation as a conflict? Competing forces?

creation entails the forming of a new product from previous products... that transformation is a conflict...

-Imp

[tbieter]

Thank you, lads, for a very interesting substantive discussion.