How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?

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Agent Smith
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Re: How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?

Post by Agent Smith »

One coupd convince an atheist by provimg God is a necessary being.
promethean75
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Re: How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?

Post by promethean75 »

Stirner's three-stage theory of development is pretty fuckin solid man. if u aren't familiar with it, it's not some ingenious idea but rather quite simple. u have to of course grant stirner's epicurean materialism to entertain the idea.

the realistic stage A prior to self awarness - prolly somewhere around lacan's mirror stage and piaget's post-operational stage. around when the aquisition and comprehension of possessive language occurs... when u learn what 'your's' means and 'not mine', etc. - is the stage of pure agon. reckoning and wrestling with the brute forces of the material world.

next is A.1... the idealistic stage when the child passes the initial self awareness stage and is now discovering ways to contend with these brute material forces, restrictions, and limitations. note this a foreshadow of the final egoist stage C to come [to be mature means to be serious like a child at play - N (paraphrasing)].

at stage B then occurs a new form of restriction when one forms one's ideals and becomes subject to them. Freud's superego and the conscience... one's 'dasein', the prejudices and opinions acquired along the way that one must answer to (daseinization is a largely unconscious process). by this time - adulthood - religious, political and philosophical beliefs are established that involve accepting and/or even promoting new forms of restriction and commitment. the involuntary egoist, as Stirn saw it, wuz stuck at stage B, and put 'greater causes' before him/her self.

finally at stage C one recognizes that original state of agon as they had when at stage A. assuming one arrives back at an epicurean materialism again, one realizes there (most fuckin likely) isn't any 'god' or immortality, and that places extraordinary freedom on the individual. there is nothing to the 'state' than some arrangement of property rights and laws that i must submit to... nothing to human life but its short, biological existence... nothing to religion but myth and pseudoscience, no foundation to morality other than what pleases one or not... and no ultimate purpose to/for anything.

upon this realization egoism is the only logical conclusion. but don't commit to the idea that u can't stand for a cause. u can stand for a whole bunch of em... u just can't call them sacred.

egoism is really a propositional mood i think, becuz in order not to reduce itself to a self-referential paradox (a moral relativist's problem) it has to admit of no restrictive value judgements. ergo, an egoist has no authority to say 'u are wrong' (unless we're talking about math problems or syllogisms) or 'u are bad', and as such, cannot justify any complaint or objection to any offense against him.

it's essentially the equivalent to that pre-mirror brute force stage before the acquisition of language. i mean how do u even do that? how do u maintain a functioning egoism without ever complaining or raising a grievance. u know how hard you'd have to be bruh?

somebody walks up and shoots your friend in the face while he's standing beside u, bends over, casually takes the wallet off the corpse... and u say 'do not step shyly back from his property, sir. pray take what u like, for he who is the defender of a thing is its proprietor'?

you'd seriously say that and not be the least bit 'morally offended', not feel the tiniest bit of resentment and contempt?

again it must only be a propositional mood and stirn wuz right with that end point in language joint. it duddint just exist for conceptions of the 'self'. there's a terminus in language also for the moral objectivist who 'feels' he is right but is unable to express or prove it with language. as such all his moral judgements are substanceless and nothing more than reified preferences and biases. He too is an egoist, only involuntary and still in the closet.
promethean75
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Re: How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?

Post by promethean75 »

wait lemme clarify something. by 'logical conclusion' I don't mean one has to be an egoist, or that one would be illogical not to be one. rather what is meant is that in the absence of all those spooks, there would be nothing else driving the organism man than his ego. that would be his elan vital, his conatus. the very essence and structure of man. his dominus sensis vobiscum.
popeye1945
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Re: How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?

Post by popeye1945 »

dattaswami wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:14 am Convincing the Adamant Atheist

Shri Phani asked: How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?

Swami replied: O Learned and Devoted Servants of God! Such adamant behaviour of atheists is the result of the aversion that they have held in their mind towards spirituality and spiritual people for a long time. The reason for their aversion is the hypocrisy of theists who have been secretly doing sins while pretending to be righteous externally. These atheists are able to identify such hypocrisy and they react emotionally. Unfortunately, their emotion is misguided since they blame God, holding Him responsible for the hypocrisy of the theists. They should blame the sinful theists and not God. The atheists think that if the concept of God itself is removed, the hypocrisy based on God will be eliminated from its root. This conclusion of the atheists is quite foolish. Firstly, by removing the concept of God, the quality of hypocrisy is not removed. Secondly, the problem of sin increases even more since the public loses all fear and starts committing all types of sin fearlessly.

I agree that theists are committing sins in the name of God. If the concept of God is eradicated, let us say that the sins done in the name of God might stop. But, apart from the sins committed in the name of God, what about all the other types of sins committed by people in the world? Will they stop too? Not at all! In fact, the theists of today, upon giving up their faith in God, will commit a hundred times more sins in the world. They will not even fear the various controlling agencies like the police and courts since they would have already tilted them in their own favor through corruption and influence. They would have lost all fear of punishment. Luckily, the theists of today, are greatly controlled by the concept of existence of God. Even though they commit some sins, they are afraid of committing more sins because they believe that God is omniscient and omnipotent. They know that He can punish sinners, even if they manage to escape the law of the land through crooked ways. The omniscient and omnipotent God shows us the evidence of His punishment of sinners in this world itself. Souls are punished for the intense sins committed by them, even while they are alive. Similarly, intensely good actions also yield rewards in this world, while the person is alive.

Does Worship Cancel Sin?

There is one concept propagated by priests, which is certainly wrong. Priests claim that sin can be cancelled by worshiping God. This is not true. The reason why the priest promotes this false concept, is to make money. The theistic sinner, who is afraid of divine punishment and is eager to find a way to escape from it, gets carried away by this concept. The priest demands money from the theistic sinner in order to perform some ritual-worship. It is basically a form of fraud. We must indeed criticize such priests and eliminate such wrong concepts from society through the propagation of true spiritual knowledge. But the atheist’s insistence on demolishing the very concept of God, in order to solve the problem, is very foolish. If your house is infested with rats, do you find a way to drive away the rats or do you burn down your entire house? In the present context, atheists want you to burn down your entire house in order to permanently eliminate the problem. Let us say, you have a toothache. A dentist says that he can free you of the toothache, once and for all, by removing all your teeth! Would you go to such a dentist? Emotion always kills a person’s intelligence and this is the case of the atheist. Eliminating all the sins committed in the name of God by rejecting the very concept of God is indeed burning down your house to get rid of rats!

The Hypocricy of Atheistic Morality

The atheist says that sin can be controlled even without the concept of God through moral education or ethics education. But tell Me, will anybody listen to you if you simply instruct people to not commit sin because sin is bad and not committing sin is good? It will simply not work! That is why moral science classes are removed from education. They are simply a waste of time! Moral education must be combined with the spiritual knowledge of God. Then alone can the desired goal be achieved. Atheistic moral education is bound to fail. The people to whom you are preaching your atheistic morality will immediately point out to you that following morality will result in some materialistic loss to them. They will ask you if there is any harm in committing sin if it gives some material benefits. You will say that they must fear the punishment given by the police and the law. But, they will tell you that they already have found crooked ways involving bribery, influence and force to escape the punishment. You will say that those techniques are not good and ethical. But they will not care at all for your ethics. They will say, “How does it matter if the techniques are good or bad? If they help me in getting materialistic benefits and enjoyment in this world, without facing any punishment from the law, they are good for me!” What can you say to them?

Becoming an atheist is nothing but getting a free licence to commit any sin, whenever one gets the chance and whenever one can escape from the law. If you say that you will remain ethical and not commit any sin, even without accepting the existence of God, it is the biggest hypocrisy! If there is indeed such an atheist, God will congratulate him and declare him to be a far far better soul than the sinful theist. God’s maximum expectation from any soul in this world is for the soul to avoid sin. He never promotes devotion, asking souls to worship Him, since the path of devotion was discovered by devotees.

God Exists

Atheists need not pretend to be broadminded in allowing the concept of God just for its practical value in controlling sin, even though they do not believe it to be true. The concept of the existence of God is absolutely true. Hence, there is no need to create any concept merely for its practical utility in solving the problem of sin in the world. The concept of the existence of God is a million percent true! The atheist has to defend his position against miracles, which are practically experienced. God-in-human-form performs unimaginable events in the world, called miracles. They provide direct evidence of the existence of the unimaginable domain, which itself is God. But the atheist blindly dismisses even genuine miracles as magic tricks. Certainly, there are clever people who use magic tricks to cheat the innocent public into thinking that they are performing miracles. But the problem is that atheists consider all miracles as magic tricks. Shri Satya Sai Baba, the recent Human Incarnation, invited atheists and scientists to observe and disprove His miracles, showing them to be magic tricks, if they could. Several atheistic scientists became His disciples, after observing His miracles for a long time. If the atheist is a true scientist, he or she will have an open mind to study and accept the truth. Atheists without a scientific attitude are incapable of such a transformation. They will always remain adamant, adamant and adamant! Science studies any phenomenon without any prejudice and, at the end of the study, it accepts whatever conclusion follows. Atheism starts with a pre-determined adamant conclusion and using twisted logic, arrives at the same conclusion, at the end of the study! There is nothing you can do with such adamant atheists except saluting to them, falling at their lotus feet! God allows them to exist in this world since they are useful as examiners for testing the strength of devotees’ faith and devotion.
Why would you suddenly want to use reason in your endeavor to convince an atheist there is a god, when you didn't use reason yourself to become a believer? Reason is not a path to belief in the supernatural, quite the opposite.
Age
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Re: How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?

Post by Age »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:38 pm
How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?
I am focusing on the discuss part. How can a theist improve their ability to speak to an atheist.
Live well and interact well with people in general, not just them.
Understand what the atheist has not experienced and often not grown up in. Really understand that.
What have so-called "atheists" not experienced and often not grown up in, EXACTLY?

Do 'you', "iwwanoplato", REALLY understand 'that'?
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:38 pm Don't pretend that theism and atheism are just based on arguments and ideas, have a lot to do with experience and happenstance.
If they are curious about anything related to your theism, stay with that.
If they aren't, leave them alone.
If they have no interest, they have no interest. They know where the theists are. They can ask questions if they want to.
Keep in mind the things that have been done in God's name and continue to be.
What are the 'things' that have, allegedly and supposedly, been done in God's name, and continue to be?
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:38 pm Understand the specific context of the person's atheism, which means their life.
If they grew up in the Bible Best in the US or are a woman who managed to get out of Iran or Saudi Arabia, they will have specific reasons for having distaste for religion.
If you have sexism, racism, homophobia, hatred of other religions, smugness and a cruel deity who would torture someone for all time...remove the beam from your own eye before pointing out the mote in theirs.
Are you suggesting here that those RESPONSIBLE for the Wrong should NOT be 'punished' NOR HELD ACCOUNTABLE for their Wrong doing?
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:38 pm Try to see what cultural biases went into the rules and customs of your religion. Could be things like sexism. Could also be class based biases. it could have to do with religions often siding with those in power, like tyrants. Render unto Caesar type attitudes have turned many toward communism and atheism.
Notice snobbery when dealing with indigenous religions or polytheisms or religions you think yours is better than.
If you are in a guru type role - and any religion can have guru roles - notice the narcissism invovled. This can be proxy narcissism where other people with power in your organizations treat the guru as king, while the guru keeps pretending to be humble yet never challenges the organizational narcissism.
There could be a whole series of books written about the subtle and gross (pun intended) these patterns in religions fall out.
But INSTEAD of PROVIDING us with your OWN BELIEFS and VIEWS, HOW can 'we' DISCUSS, and TALK WITH, those of 'you' who call "yourselves" "atheists", or "theists", who are very adamant in your views?

In other words, HOW can 'we' come to either SHOW, and/or AGREE WITH, 'you' on what IS ACTUALLY IRREFUTABLY True, Right, AND Correct in Life?
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Re: How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?

Post by Age »

Flannel Jesus wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:59 pm One thing that always seemed strange to me is the idea that God cares that you're correct about this one particular thing.
WHY?
Flannel Jesus wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:59 pm There's no other facts in the world where, if you're wrong about it, you're at risk of eternal torment.
Therefore, 'correctness' would SURELY be CARED ABOUT, right?
Flannel Jesus wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:59 pm Say you accept or reject a particular model of physics, and it turns out that your choice was factually incorrect - so what? Right? Like you might annoy a couple people about it over the course of your life, who feel frustrated that they couldn't convince you of the truth, but it doesn't go beyond that. There's no god of physics who is going to punish you for not believing the right physics. Even the people you annoyed wouldn't generally wish eternal torment on you for being incorrect about a simple matter of fact

No other fact in the planet holds the status that "belief in God" and "belief in my specific vision of God" have, and I think that's notable.
BECAUSE, unlike 'physics', 'it' is ABOUT a 'way of life', or a 'way of living', which in regards to CHILDREN and how they ARE 'cared for' or NOT 'cared for', then this would, OBVIOUSLY, be some 'thing', which is CARED ABOUT. Well for ALL adult who have been 'brought up' CORRECTLY anyway.
Flannel Jesus wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:59 pm I also think it's notable that most human beings, when pressed, would admit that it's incredibly cruel to eternally torment someone for not believing in you, when you put them in a world where belief was only going to be based on faith instead of overwhelming evidence.
What we can CLEARLY SEE here is just HOW MUCH these adult human beings KEPT thinking 'eternal torment' is ABOUT 'them', INDIVIDUALLY. These adult human beings, in the days when this was being written, REALLY were SO SELF-CENTERED and ONLY CONCERNED about 'their' OWN 'selves' they REALLY thought that 'heaven', 'hell', and 'the eternal life' was about 'THEM', PERSONALLY.

No matter how MANY TIMES they were INFORMED OTHERWISE 'they' just could NOT SEE past "their" OWN LITTLE 'lives' and 'selves'.

They were SO SELFISH and SO GREEDY that they ACTUALLY read the words in 'religious texts' as so those words were ABOUT 'them', individually. BUT, this was OBVIOUSLY NOT of 'their fault', but of THE FAULT of the way they grew up and were 'raised'. AGAIN, from 'living' in a Wrong way.

OBVIOUSLY, IF they had been brought up DIFFERENTLY, then they, ALSO, would have KNOWN DIFFERENTLY, and MUCH BETTER.
Flannel Jesus wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:59 pm "Incredibly cruel" is an understatement - it's literally the most evil thing imaginable. There isn't a human that ever existed that committed evils comparable to that.
Here we have a PRIME EXAMPLE of being ABSOLUTELY BLINDED by ones ALREADY PRE-GAINED BELIEFS.
Flannel Jesus wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:59 pm Of course not all religious people believe in that kind of hell, which is great. You shouldn't. It's a terribly irrationally evil thing to believe.
Talk about FORCING one's OWN JUDGMENTS and BELIEFS onto "another". "theists" AND "atheists" are NO DIFFERENT, in this regard.
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Re: How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?

Post by Age »

Lacewing wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:42 pm
Flannel Jesus wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:59 pm No other fact in the planet holds the status that "belief in God" and "belief in my specific vision of God" have, and I think that's notable.

I also think it's notable that most human beings, when pressed, would admit that it's incredibly cruel to eternally torment someone for not believing in you, when you put them in a world where belief was only going to be based on faith instead of overwhelming evidence. "Incredibly cruel" is an understatement - it's literally the most evil thing imaginable. There isn't a human that ever existed that committed evils comparable to that.
Good points.

Even most humans have kind hearts, want to do the right/best things, have compassion and care about others, and wouldn't wish torment on anyone unless maybe they hate the person.
LOL Do you REALLY BELIEVE that "theists" WISH 'torment' on "others"?

If yes, then WHY do "theists" spend so much time and effort on 'TRYING TO' CONVERT "others" to a life, which would, SUPPOSEDLY, bring about NO 'torment'?
Lacewing wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:42 pm
Any respectable god would surely not be ruled by such vengeful emotions and would understand how incredibly difficult and ridiculous this world is for human beings to endure and navigate.
LOL Talk ABOUT being SO UTTERLY CONFUSED and having been SO UTTERLY MISLED.
Lacewing wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:42 pm
Would any of us condemn a child for not believing us?
Here we have CONFUSION, in the EXTREME.
Lacewing wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:42 pm
I think the reason that human beings crafted human-like gods is because they could not conceive of much beyond themselves (nor beyond their experiences at the time) and the purpose was to validate and serve themselves.
Is this WHY 'you', "lacewing", do the EXACT SAME 'thing'?
Lacewing wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:42 pm That's why the traditional presentations handed-down don't make sense to an evolving world. It's strange to see some human beings (even now) serving themselves with extreme forms of the nonsense...
And, 'you', "lacewing", are a PRIME EXAMPLE of 'one' serving "them" 'self' with extremes forms of nonsense. As I have ALREADY HIGHLIGHTED and SHOWN in this forum.
Lacewing wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:42 pm and perpetrating those evils onto others in a weird kind of self-fulfilling prophecy that they blame on the others.
And, just HOW MUCH 'you' BLAME "others" here "lacewing" can be CLEARLY SEEN and OBSERVED.
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Re: How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?

Post by Age »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:38 pm
Flannel Jesus wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:59 pm One thing that always seemed strange to me is the idea that God cares that you're correct about this one particular thing.
Well, even the volatile versions of the Christian deity care about a bunch of stuff - I mean, you could spend a lot of time and energy trying to do it all, and add in Jesus' requirements that you not even have the feelings associated with the 10 commandments (lusting in your heart over your neighbor's wife and all that) it's a bunch.

But, yeah, I you'd think God would be at least as loving as the better among us and reserve eternal torment only for those who continually desire.
What does it take for 'you', adult human beings, to WAKE UP and SEE that your OWN views of 'things' are NOT necessarily the ACTUAL Truth of 'things'?
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:38 pm
There's no other facts in the world where, if you're wrong about it, you're at risk of eternal torment.

Though this isn't a necessary part of theism and many theists don't believe you're out if you miss this one.
Say you accept or reject a particular model of physics, and it turns out that your choice was factually incorrect - so what? Right? Like you might annoy a couple people about it over the course of your life, who feel frustrated that they couldn't convince you of the truth, but it doesn't go beyond that. There's no god of physics who is going to punish you for not believing the right physics. Even the people you annoyed wouldn't generally wish eternal torment on you for being incorrect about a simple matter of fact
Though in the secular world, this is often the way things are now. Go wrong on the trans issue and man, you are out. In fact, seem to go wrong on it and you are out. And that's both sides, wrong being different for each. I'd be very afraid if these people had a button that could send me to hell.
AGAIN, just how UTTERLY SELFISH and SELF-CENTERED these people were, back then, can be CLEARLY SEEN and HEARD throughout a LOT of their writings and speaking.
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:38 pm When I was younger, I would been worried about a smaller percentage of the population. Still, significant, but smaller. Now, it's one strike, one area of disagreement and you are out. It's quite amazing. You can suddenly get hundreds if not thousands of messages (if you are well known) including significant numbers of threats of rape and murder.

For some just being white or black is enough to put you out. And there's nothing you can do to be in. That's condemned for being something, not for doing something.
Of course not all religious people believe in that kind of hell, which is great. You shouldn't.
So, 'you', individually, or even collectively, make up some human being created 'hell', and then go on to CLAIM that NOT BELIEVING in 'that kind of hell' IS GREAT.

How is this ANY DIFFERENT from "theists"?
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:38 pm It's a terribly irrationally evil thing to believe.
I don't think it's a coincidence that of the religions in the world the dominant ones have this aspect.
After all THE WAY the majority of 'you', adult human beings, 'raise' children is to put THE FEAR INTO 'them', through PUNISHMENT and/or RIDICULE, or through the FEAR OF PUNISHMENT and/or RIDICULE.

MAKING or FORCING children to BELIEVE 'adults' KNOW BEST was a VERY COMMON OCCURRENCE. That was; up to a particular point in history.
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Re: How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?

Post by Age »

Flannel Jesus wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:57 am
attofishpi wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:33 am
Flannel Jesus wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:59 pm One thing that always seemed strange to me is the idea that God cares that you're correct about this one particular thing.

There's no other facts in the world where, if you're wrong about it, you're at risk of eternal torment. Say you accept or reject a particular model of physics, and it turns out that your choice was factually incorrect - so what? Right? Like you might annoy a couple people about it over the course of your life, who feel frustrated that they couldn't convince you of the truth, but it doesn't go beyond that. There's no god of physics who is going to punish you for not believing the right physics. Even the people you annoyed wouldn't generally wish eternal torment on you for being incorrect about a simple matter of fact

No other fact in the planet holds the status that "belief in God" and "belief in my specific vision of God" have, and I think that's notable.

I also think it's notable that most human beings, when pressed, would admit that it's incredibly cruel to eternally torment someone for not believing in you, when you put them in a world where belief was only going to be based on faith instead of overwhelming evidence. "Incredibly cruel" is an understatement - it's literally the most evil thing imaginable. There isn't a human that ever existed that committed evils comparable to that.

Of course not all religious people believe in that kind of hell, which is great. You shouldn't. It's a terribly irrationally evil thing to believe.
Where in the bible does it state that you will burn in hell (or be tormented) forever simply for not believing in the existence of God?
I didn't mention the Bible
So, does this MEAN NOWHERE, or some 'thing' ELSE?
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Re: How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?

Post by Age »

Flannel Jesus wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:09 am Christians
So, so-called "christians" have TOLD you that you will be tormented FOREVER if you do NOT believe in God, right?
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Re: How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?

Post by Age »

Flannel Jesus wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:25 am
attofishpi wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:11 am
Flannel Jesus wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:10 am Muslims too I suppose, it would be unfair to suggest it's only Christians.
Well it's clear to me that you are listening to the wrong "Muslims" and "Christians" since (at least on the Christian account) they have misinterpretted scripture.
No TRUE scottsman would believe those things!

Btw the Qur'an apparently says some much more explicit things about hell than the Christian scriptures. So if I'm listening to the wrong Muslims, I don't know that there are right ones...
WHERE does it STATE, ANYWHERE, that 'you' WILL BE TORMENTED FOREVER if 'you' do NOT BELIEVE in God/Allah?
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Re: How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?

Post by Age »

popeye1945 wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:50 pm
attofishpi wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:41 am
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:25 am

Then you don't understand biology or the human condition and have little to nothing to do with critical thinking. wink!
Poppy, do explain your rationale to that statement.
attofishpi,

Well, I am assuming when you think of your personal God you think of an anthropomorphic God that is all good and loving, a good father figure, no? Why would a loving god create the situation we have here on earth, where life lives upon life, big fish eats little fish or in symbolic terms, the snake consuming its own tail and called the uroboros.
WHY do you have such a VERY TINY and LITTLE view and perspective of 'things' here, especially considering what we are DISCUSSING ABOUT?
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:50 pm That I think is a Greek symbol, I am sure other cultures have their own symbology for it. For the most part people are out of touch with the reality of nature and do not recognize the reality on their dinner plates.
WHY do just about ALL of 'you', adult human beings, HAVE and KNOW 'reality'?

WHY do 'you', "popeye1945", BELIEVE that 'you' are IN TOUCH with 'the reality of nature'?

OBVIOUSLY, with and from YOUR VERY SMALL perspective of things here you do NOT YET recognize the 'Reality', Itself, either on your dinner plate or NOT.
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:50 pm It is just a very harsh reality, in such a reality the ignorant are much happier in their ignorance, they believe because they are more or less at the head of the food chain that they are of a special works. I had the opportunity to enlighten some born-again Christian friends of mine of this, which they somehow allowed it to drift off into the outer ether--lol!!
Here is a PRIME EXAMPLE of one BELIEVING that 'it' is at the head of the 'food chain' of 'reality', and that 'it' is the one to ENLIGHTEN "others" to what the Truth IS of 'reality'. ALL while ACCUSING "others" of BELIEVING that 'they' are at 'the head of the food chain'.

The HYPOCRISY here is BLINDING.
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:50 pm Well, there are different kinds of believers I have found, some take every word of scripture literally even the most absurd outrageous parts of the fantasy and that is direct from the talking snake.
REALLY?

How MANY human beings have you FOUND that BELIEVE 'this'?

Would you provide their names and contact details so we could VERIFY this CLAIM of YOURS here?
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:50 pm When humanity's knowledge of themselves and their world was just about nil, it was more understandable that they might believe nonsense and indeed did.
LOL The way some of 'you', human beings, go on, in the days when this is being written, I sometimes consider 'humanity's past knowledge of themselves and THE world' being MORE True, MORE Right, and/or MORE Correct than what 'it' was. As can be CLEARLY SEEN by some of what was written here in this forum.
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:50 pm Before the publication of "The Origin of the Species' in 1859 most of the population everywhere were believers, for there was no explanation prior to that of how complexity could possibly arise in the wondrous ways it has.
When you say, 'were believers', what were 'they' believers IN or OF, EXACTLY?

Also, absolutely EVERY one of 'you' are BELIEVERS, in the day when this is being written. As can be CLEARLY SEEN and PROVED IRREFUTABLY True throughout this forum.
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:50 pm The stagnant waters of scripture found themselves challenged and is still fighting the battle today, especially in the United States where dumber and dumber prevail.
The stagnant waters of 'physic scripture' is ALWAYS finding 'itself' CHALLENGED and is STILL fighting the battle 'today', especially among those MORE BELIEVING "scientists". For example, in the days when this is being written, SOME STILL BELIEVE that the Universe BEGAN, by either some God, some 'thing', or some 'bang', and IS EXPANDING, which is even MORE LAUGHABLE when WRITTEN OUT CLEARLY.
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:50 pm As an aside, that is why the power elite in the States treats the population like cattle because they are.
But 'you', "popeye1945", are CERTAINLY NOT one of the so-called 'cattle class', right?

As 'you' KNOW 'reality' and what is ACTUALLY True and Right, and would NEVER FOLLOW ANY one "else" NOR their BELIEFS and VIEWS, correct?
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:50 pm Many people think religion is where humanity gets its morality from, instead of realizing the religion is a biological extension, an expression of human nature, and its knowledge at the time of its formation.
'Religion' is ALSO just having or holding the BELIEF in or of some 'thing'. Like, for example, God does NOT exist. Which is, OBVIOUSLY, just ANOTHER 'religion' in and of itself.
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:50 pm What used to be an oral tradition changed with the times with the printed word they concretized the word, and made it the holy ignorance of another time brought into modernity to govern us.
But 'you' have NEVER been TRICKED NOR FOOLED by ANY of this, NOR of ANY 'thing' here, correct "popeye1945"?
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:50 pm Besides religions of all kinds tends to close the door on wonder, for certainty is their selling point, a never changing selling point, the fact that it is unchanging should tell you it is not natural in a world where change is the only certainty. The floor is yours!
So, MAYBE God DOES EXIST, "popeye1945"?

Or, is this UNCHANGEABLE?
Age
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Re: How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?

Post by Age »

Agent Smith wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:02 am One coupd convince an atheist by provimg God is a necessary being.
Well the second part here is ABSOLUTELY EASY, and SIMPLE.
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Agent Smith
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Re: How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?

Post by Agent Smith »

Age wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:10 am
Agent Smith wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:02 am One coupd convince an atheist by provimg God is a necessary being.
Well the second part here is ABSOLUTELY EASY, and SIMPLE.
Si, very, very easy. Our minds are sharp, oui?
Age
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Re: How can we discuss and convince atheists, who are very adamant in their views?

Post by Age »

Agent Smith wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:23 am
Age wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:10 am
Agent Smith wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:02 am One coupd convince an atheist by provimg God is a necessary being.
Well the second part here is ABSOLUTELY EASY, and SIMPLE.
Si, very, very easy. Our minds are sharp, oui?
There is NO such thing as 'our minds'.

There is, however, 'the Mind', of which there is ONLY One, ALONE, by the way.
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