What is truth in art?

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Janoah
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What is truth in art?

Post by Janoah »

psycho wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:29 pm
Janoah wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:29 pm
psycho wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:38 pm
I assure you that it was not my intention to offend Chopin.
Thank you for the recognition about Chopin!
I will be grateful for the recognition, if you deem it correct, what I will say now.
So, scientific or "factual" truth consists in the correspondence of the mental representation of something to what exists in external reality.
For example, the mental picture that a tree is growing behind the house is true if a tree actually grows behind the house.

Regarding the nocturne, the melody could come spontaneously, without any idea of external reality.
Therefore, I say that the truth of art is different from scientific, factual truth.
(To make it clear, I do not believe in the "supernatural" transcendent, and I propose to define the truth in art in scientific language.)
For me, the use of the concept "truth" just confuses things.

In my case, my opinion is more extreme because I do not think that the absolute truth is something accessible to humans.

We only get to know approximations.

I share with you that a concept must have an effective correspondence with what it describes about reality.

I do not share with you that something called scientific truth exists. Science does not make claims about the truth.

In my opinion, the "truth" in Chopin's art is found in the effectiveness of his product to generate in his listeners the mental states that they enjoy so much.
I agree that there can be no absolute truth.
After all, the truth, in any case, is "correspondence", and correspondence cannot be absolute in nature.
But the correspondence may be more, or less appropriate.
Therefore, we can talk about more, or less true.
Art can generate in his listeners the mental states that they enjoy so much.
But the crowd can also like the vulgar.
So what is the truts in art, what makes art more true?

In my opinion, the truth in art, it is "internal", the upright in heart. As said, "and gladness for the upright in heart" (Psalm 97)
It is interesting that a person is so arranged that if he is the upright in heart, he can feel the upright in heart of another, and this is what is relevant for art.
psycho
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Re: What is truth in art?

Post by psycho »

Janoah wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:18 pm
psycho wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:29 pm
Janoah wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:29 pm

Thank you for the recognition about Chopin!
I will be grateful for the recognition, if you deem it correct, what I will say now.
So, scientific or "factual" truth consists in the correspondence of the mental representation of something to what exists in external reality.
For example, the mental picture that a tree is growing behind the house is true if a tree actually grows behind the house.

Regarding the nocturne, the melody could come spontaneously, without any idea of external reality.
Therefore, I say that the truth of art is different from scientific, factual truth.
(To make it clear, I do not believe in the "supernatural" transcendent, and I propose to define the truth in art in scientific language.)
For me, the use of the concept "truth" just confuses things.

In my case, my opinion is more extreme because I do not think that the absolute truth is something accessible to humans.

We only get to know approximations.

I share with you that a concept must have an effective correspondence with what it describes about reality.

I do not share with you that something called scientific truth exists. Science does not make claims about the truth.

In my opinion, the "truth" in Chopin's art is found in the effectiveness of his product to generate in his listeners the mental states that they enjoy so much.
I agree that there can be no absolute truth.
After all, the truth, in any case, is "correspondence", and correspondence cannot be absolute in nature.
But the correspondence may be more, or less appropriate.
Therefore, we can talk about more, or less true.
Art can generate in his listeners the mental states that they enjoy so much.
But the crowd can also like the vulgar.
So what is the truts in art, what makes art more true?

In my opinion, the truth in art, it is "internal", the upright in heart. As said, "and gladness for the upright in heart" (Psalm 97)
It is interesting that a person is so arranged that if he is the upright in heart, he can feel the upright in heart of another, and this is what is relevant for art.
For me, the truth (always an approximation) is directly related to the fact that what is expressed artistically corresponds to reality. This does not mean that the artist is restricted to the fact that his means of expression must reflect reality, but rather that what is expressed must finally contribute something applicable to our understanding of that reality.
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Janoah
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Re: What is truth in art?

Post by Janoah »

psycho wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:39 pm
For me, the truth (always an approximation) is directly related to the fact that what is expressed artistically corresponds to reality. This does not mean that the artist is restricted to the fact that his means of expression must reflect reality, but rather that what is expressed must finally contribute something applicable to our understanding of that reality.
although, you can simply copy reality, and there will be maximum correspondence to it. There will be a factual correspondence, but the artistic value of the mapping, however, approaches zero. And for understanding reality, after all, a plan with sections is best suited.
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Re: What is truth in art?

Post by psycho »

Janoah wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:01 am
psycho wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:39 pm
For me, the truth (always an approximation) is directly related to the fact that what is expressed artistically corresponds to reality. This does not mean that the artist is restricted to the fact that his means of expression must reflect reality, but rather that what is expressed must finally contribute something applicable to our understanding of that reality.
although, you can simply copy reality, and there will be maximum correspondence to it. There will be a factual correspondence, but the artistic value of the mapping, however, approaches zero. And for understanding reality, after all, a plan with sections is best suited.
Copying reality does not add anything new. We already have the original. For something to be considered art it must propose something new. A new point of view or idea that allows us to understand the world.

The first time I saw a Sorolla painting, I understood something about how to represent light and transparency that until then I had not noticed.
He explained something in a different way than Optics. He did it through aesthetics.
Impenitent
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Re: What is truth in art?

Post by Impenitent »

truth elicits a certain feeling

art elicits a different feeling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mSqJpePXlQ (Peter Frampton asks a different question)

-Imp
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Janoah
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Re: What is truth in art?

Post by Janoah »

psycho wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:31 am a Sorolla painting,
the great painting! I like impressionism.
Could you explain what you understood?
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Janoah
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Re: What is truth in art?

Post by Janoah »

Impenitent wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:57 pm feeling
yes, yes, in art, feeling plays the first violin, not logic.
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Re: What is truth in art?

Post by psycho »

Janoah wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:43 am
psycho wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:31 am a Sorolla painting,
the great painting! I like impressionism.
Could you explain what you understood?
It was when visiting one of the museums in my city. The work is a small painting that shows a fishing boat stranded on the coast. What generated the eureka was the economy of means and the ease with which he transmitted the idea of ​​light through the sails so effectively.
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Janoah
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Re: What is truth in art?

Post by Janoah »

psycho wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:37 pm the economy of means
Yes, the economy of means, useful work per quantity of energy, almost like Chopin's.
popeye1945
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Re: What is truth in art?

Post by popeye1945 »

Personally, I have heard some esoteric definitions such as the concept of an enduring read immortal value. I am probably not understanding this but as it stands with me, it sounds like non-sense. We all know creative artists can be pretentious. It would seem to me that if you got what the artist intended through his art, then this is the truth of art, the artist wanted to give you an experience, an insight, an appreciation, and if you got it both you and the artist are living the same truth, the truth of his/her art.
trokanmariel
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Re: What is truth in art?

Post by trokanmariel »

A truth in art philosophy:

The trio of immunity (physics, evolution-i.e. animals and speech), from the aristocracy's demon mythology to be socialist to sociology visual (sociology visual identity from morality's fear of biology/name condescension), is also a friendly spirituality from nastiness network ally; indeed, the trio of animals (such as Bandit, from 11 New Street in Wolverhampton), physics (the term help me) and speech (the term help me) can be a political as left-wing associate, of aristocracy's all escape is the hypocrisy of sharing-demonstration to the sex aristocracy mainframe.

Alas: if the trio are exempt, from the aristocracy's demon mythology personality, why should it be an indirect albeit still helper of sex exclusion?

The answer, is that despite the creation of philosophy physics from the colours of Earth's algebra using the colours, the alliance between the trio and sex systems (a Marnie Simpson from Big Brother reference) is due to the Heaven projection of interference by the real sanity consisting of storytelling through days being a criticism of daylight's halo/Heaven visual.

Following this, there is the resolution (Margot Robbie's meta person is listening):


Because the aforementioned despite, of colours, used the language/philosophy constructed of round-a-bout (a Lalo reference), in reference to algebra's interference in the system, there is the scenario intelligence of the Heaven system saying to the trio, that their alliance to demons is cynical after all.

I was meant to include Dertry's inversion scope, in this text; I did include it, a few times, however, I've felt forced to 3D the inclusion, due to the fear by cinema interference within the text's apparatus of story to publication . .

The fear, essentially (Rosalie Cullen's essentially, by Kristen Stewart's Bella and Pattinson's Edward, with Emmett, Charlie, Jasper, Carlisle and Esme and Renesmee, Alice and Taylor Lautner all listening), being that the construction through physics art, decided to activate its copycat procedure, due to the incident of Thomas Heath's putting together data with Bandit (while walking Bandit) as a violation of public/private expression logic differences art.


To close:
Empathy to cynicism generator's governance, over mythology's animal-shapelessness as code to not let aristocracy see the physics, by Nikki Reed
popeye1945
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Re: What is truth in art?

Post by popeye1945 »

The most obvious thing about art is that it is an experience, perhaps the question then becomes what is the subject of the artist's presentation. If one remembers that art is not considered an object of nature but is of man-made objects, at least we can conclude that in generalizing the subject of art is the object. So, again in general I think it can be said that art is the celebration of being in a cognitive experience involving both subject and object. So, might it be a celebration of the relation between subject and object? In my thinking, object/s are a reaction to stimulus, a biological readout of what would otherwise be the undefinable stimulus. The closer to the perfection of a kind is the beautiful whether object or organism both qualifying as an object. The further away from the beautifulness of the perfection of a kind in degree is getting ever closer to non-being non-existence so ultimately it is the embrace of existence, perhaps an attempt at the experience of the rapture of being, and being alive in the world.
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Re: What is truth in art?

Post by Phil8659 »

Absolutely not,
it is under the kitchen sink.

I always imagined that truth was the state of being true,

And that being true is one thing when measured against another, no difference was to be found.

Now, objectively we have many different methods of measuring everything.
So, how can one be so single mindedly ignorant of a principle which must be used even to have a system of grammar, or a sense system of the body, and a mind to process information given to it by the body?
Ever even read Plato? Or did you just look at the words?

So truth might be in a Kitchen cabinet, or one in the bathroom, but it is certainly not even in your realm of understanding.
popeye1945
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Re: What is truth in art?

Post by popeye1945 »

Truth is experience, the truth in art is the truth of its experience, was it the intention of the artist, who knows his intentional experience might not be what the admiring subject might experience? It's relative to a conscious subject on both sides of the endeavor. I suppose the term, the truth in art might mean that this is when the two are one in the same way as subject and object.
Walker
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Re: What is truth in art?

Post by Walker »

popeye1945 wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:22 am Truth is experience, the truth in art is the truth of its experience, was it the intention of the artist, who knows his intentional experience might not be what the admiring subject might experience? It's relative to a conscious subject on both sides of the endeavor. I suppose the term, the truth in art might mean that this is when the two are one in the same way as subject and object.
I think concerns about truth may take attention away from the quality of the art. I've seen so-called conceptual art that I wouldn't want to buy because of the low quality. Of course, defining quality drove Pirsig mad, so suffice it to say within the scope of passing attention, that quality is self-evident. Like, low-rent is self-evident. Craftsmanship is an indication of quality.

The way I figure it:

Realistic painting = 95% artist and 5% witness.
Impressionistic painting = 70% artist and 30% witness.
One framed empty canvas = 0% artist and 100% witness.

The same principle of balance can be applied to all art forms. Artist and witness join to form the complete work.

The numbers may fluctuate, and they do exclude the fantasy 110-percenters.
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