Imagination, Art and Formlessness

What is art? What is beauty?

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Eodnhoj7
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Imagination, Art and Formlessness

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Imagination is the giving of image to the formless aspect of being in an effort to control it by establishing borders around it. Part of the nature of mental illness is a deification of imagined realities at the expense of acknowledging the power of subtlety and formlessness.

The monks of old had a simple peace of advice when meditating: imagine nothing and focus intently on the words of the prayer? Why? Words alone give symbolic definition and any excess of imaging places an extreme emphasis on the power of form over the power of formlessness.

Reality is fundamentally formless when given thought too as all images are merely formless given limit. What accounts for the confusion of complexity is a myriad of images which stifle any true thought under the gravity of symbols each with their own respective interpretations.

Intelligence is derived from pattern recognition/application. The problem occurs that intelligence can be rooted in a strictly linear progressive manner of interpretation as one symbol projects to another at the expense of meaning, thus with too much knowledge nothing is known.

We strive as successful and failed artists to give boundary to being. Part of it is egotistical in an effort to control the unknowable, the other part is a complete absence of ego through a personal sacrifice to bring order out of nothingness. That which exists has truth value.

The problem with art, especially writing, is that you are only good if someone tells you "you are good", the artist is at the mercy of public whim as the artist produces what is heartfelt with little to no judgement as to what is created. To the artist "if it exists it is good."

An artist of any nature, loses him or herself to a flow of being which suppresses all judgment for but a moment in order to create a paradox of actually knowing something to the core for that same brief moment. Art is momentary thus monumental in momentum.

Nihilism results when the vanity of being is taken to one extreme without also acknowledging that vanity is vain as well. It is this regress of images that leads to disillusionment at the expense of beautiful simplicity. That which is simple is often times the most meaningful.
Nick_A
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Re: Imagination, Art and Formlessness

Post by Nick_A »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:03 am Imagination is the giving of image to the formless aspect of being in an effort to control it by establishing borders around it. Part of the nature of mental illness is a deification of imagined realities at the expense of acknowledging the power of subtlety and formlessness.

The monks of old had a simple peace of advice when meditating: imagine nothing and focus intently on the words of the prayer? Why? Words alone give symbolic definition and any excess of imaging places an extreme emphasis on the power of form over the power of formlessness.

Reality is fundamentally formless when given thought too as all images are merely formless given limit. What accounts for the confusion of complexity is a myriad of images which stifle any true thought under the gravity of symbols each with their own respective interpretations.

Intelligence is derived from pattern recognition/application. The problem occurs that intelligence can be rooted in a strictly linear progressive manner of interpretation as one symbol projects to another at the expense of meaning, thus with too much knowledge nothing is known.

We strive as successful and failed artists to give boundary to being. Part of it is egotistical in an effort to control the unknowable, the other part is a complete absence of ego through a personal sacrifice to bring order out of nothingness. That which exists has truth value.

The problem with art, especially writing, is that you are only good if someone tells you "you are good", the artist is at the mercy of public whim as the artist produces what is heartfelt with little to no judgement as to what is created. To the artist "if it exists it is good."

An artist of any nature, loses him or herself to a flow of being which suppresses all judgment for but a moment in order to create a paradox of actually knowing something to the core for that same brief moment. Art is momentary thus monumental in momentum.

Nihilism results when the vanity of being is taken to one extreme without also acknowledging that vanity is vain as well. It is this regress of images that leads to disillusionment at the expense of beautiful simplicity. That which is simple is often times the most meaningful.
Michelangelo is famous for saying that he worked to liberate the forms imprisoned in the marble. He saw his job as simply removing what was extraneous. This endless struggle of man to free himself from his physical constraints is a metaphor of the flesh burdening the soul.
IYO did michelangelo feel an idea within the marble he could reveal through his talent or is the object the result of pure imagination? I often wondered if both were possible given the right conditions.?
PeteJ
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Re: Imagination, Art and Formlessness

Post by PeteJ »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:03 am The monks of old had a simple peace of advice when meditating: imagine nothing and focus intently on the words of the prayer? Why? Words alone give symbolic definition and any excess of imaging places an extreme emphasis on the power of form over the power of formlessness.
Sometimes, perhaps, Generally the advice is not to imagine any form or shape, and this would include words and numbers. For obvious reasons formlessness requires that we leave behind words.
PeteJ
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Re: Imagination, Art and Formlessness

Post by PeteJ »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:03 am The monks of old had a simple peace of advice when meditating: imagine nothing and focus intently on the words of the prayer? Why? Words alone give symbolic definition and any excess of imaging places an extreme emphasis on the power of form over the power of formlessness.
Just a quibble. Monks were advised by Evagrios never to imagine a shape or form during prayer. In this context aords are forms. The repetition of words, where this is the practice, is often about attention and focus rather than meaning.
popeye1945
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Re: Imagination, Art and Formlessness

Post by popeye1945 »

Formlessness is darkness and silence, peace
trokanmariel
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Re: Imagination, Art and Formlessness

Post by trokanmariel »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:03 am Imagination is the giving of image to the formless aspect of being in an effort to control it by establishing borders around it. Part of the nature of mental illness is a deification of imagined realities at the expense of acknowledging the power of subtlety and formlessness.

The monks of old had a simple peace of advice when meditating: imagine nothing and focus intently on the words of the prayer? Why? Words alone give symbolic definition and any excess of imaging places an extreme emphasis on the power of form over the power of formlessness.

Reality is fundamentally formless when given thought too as all images are merely formless given limit. What accounts for the confusion of complexity is a myriad of images which stifle any true thought under the gravity of symbols each with their own respective interpretations.

Intelligence is derived from pattern recognition/application. The problem occurs that intelligence can be rooted in a strictly linear progressive manner of interpretation as one symbol projects to another at the expense of meaning, thus with too much knowledge nothing is known.

We strive as successful and failed artists to give boundary to being. Part of it is egotistical in an effort to control the unknowable, the other part is a complete absence of ego through a personal sacrifice to bring order out of nothingness. That which exists has truth value.

The problem with art, especially writing, is that you are only good if someone tells you "you are good", the artist is at the mercy of public whim as the artist produces what is heartfelt with little to no judgement as to what is created. To the artist "if it exists it is good."

An artist of any nature, loses him or herself to a flow of being which suppresses all judgment for but a moment in order to create a paradox of actually knowing something to the core for that same brief moment. Art is momentary thus monumental in momentum.

Nihilism results when the vanity of being is taken to one extreme without also acknowledging that vanity is vain as well. It is this regress of images that leads to disillusionment at the expense of beautiful simplicity. That which is simple is often times the most meaningful.
"Part of it is egotistical in an effort to control the unknowable"

The first part, is the self's lack of confidence in itself; the second part, after the word egotistical, is the misplaced blame game - the sequence, overall, is one of total irony:

The self isn't supposed to lack confidence, and the blame game isn't able to be misplaced.
Eodnhoj7
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Imagination, Art and Formlessness

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

trokanmariel wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 12:38 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:03 am Imagination is the giving of image to the formless aspect of being in an effort to control it by establishing borders around it. Part of the nature of mental illness is a deification of imagined realities at the expense of acknowledging the power of subtlety and formlessness.

The monks of old had a simple peace of advice when meditating: imagine nothing and focus intently on the words of the prayer? Why? Words alone give symbolic definition and any excess of imaging places an extreme emphasis on the power of form over the power of formlessness.

Reality is fundamentally formless when given thought too as all images are merely formless given limit. What accounts for the confusion of complexity is a myriad of images which stifle any true thought under the gravity of symbols each with their own respective interpretations.

Intelligence is derived from pattern recognition/application. The problem occurs that intelligence can be rooted in a strictly linear progressive manner of interpretation as one symbol projects to another at the expense of meaning, thus with too much knowledge nothing is known.

We strive as successful and failed artists to give boundary to being. Part of it is egotistical in an effort to control the unknowable, the other part is a complete absence of ego through a personal sacrifice to bring order out of nothingness. That which exists has truth value.

The problem with art, especially writing, is that you are only good if someone tells you "you are good", the artist is at the mercy of public whim as the artist produces what is heartfelt with little to no judgement as to what is created. To the artist "if it exists it is good."

An artist of any nature, loses him or herself to a flow of being which suppresses all judgment for but a moment in order to create a paradox of actually knowing something to the core for that same brief moment. Art is momentary thus monumental in momentum.

Nihilism results when the vanity of being is taken to one extreme without also acknowledging that vanity is vain as well. It is this regress of images that leads to disillusionment at the expense of beautiful simplicity. That which is simple is often times the most meaningful.
"Part of it is egotistical in an effort to control the unknowable"

The first part, is the self's lack of confidence in itself; the second part, after the word egotistical, is the misplaced blame game - the sequence, overall, is one of total irony:

The self isn't supposed to lack confidence, and the blame game isn't able to be misplaced.
Art is the manifestation of boundaries upon a reality which is formless due to its continuity and change. To manifest boundaries upon that which has none, reality, is the separate reality thus resulting in illusion. Illusion is seperativeness.
Impenitent
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Re: Imagination, Art and Formlessness

Post by Impenitent »

"Be like water" - Lee

-Imp
trokanmariel
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Re: Imagination, Art and Formlessness

Post by trokanmariel »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:20 am
trokanmariel wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 12:38 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:03 am Imagination is the giving of image to the formless aspect of being in an effort to control it by establishing borders around it. Part of the nature of mental illness is a deification of imagined realities at the expense of acknowledging the power of subtlety and formlessness.

The monks of old had a simple peace of advice when meditating: imagine nothing and focus intently on the words of the prayer? Why? Words alone give symbolic definition and any excess of imaging places an extreme emphasis on the power of form over the power of formlessness.

Reality is fundamentally formless when given thought too as all images are merely formless given limit. What accounts for the confusion of complexity is a myriad of images which stifle any true thought under the gravity of symbols each with their own respective interpretations.

Intelligence is derived from pattern recognition/application. The problem occurs that intelligence can be rooted in a strictly linear progressive manner of interpretation as one symbol projects to another at the expense of meaning, thus with too much knowledge nothing is known.

We strive as successful and failed artists to give boundary to being. Part of it is egotistical in an effort to control the unknowable, the other part is a complete absence of ego through a personal sacrifice to bring order out of nothingness. That which exists has truth value.

The problem with art, especially writing, is that you are only good if someone tells you "you are good", the artist is at the mercy of public whim as the artist produces what is heartfelt with little to no judgement as to what is created. To the artist "if it exists it is good."

An artist of any nature, loses him or herself to a flow of being which suppresses all judgment for but a moment in order to create a paradox of actually knowing something to the core for that same brief moment. Art is momentary thus monumental in momentum.

Nihilism results when the vanity of being is taken to one extreme without also acknowledging that vanity is vain as well. It is this regress of images that leads to disillusionment at the expense of beautiful simplicity. That which is simple is often times the most meaningful.
"Part of it is egotistical in an effort to control the unknowable"

The first part, is the self's lack of confidence in itself; the second part, after the word egotistical, is the misplaced blame game - the sequence, overall, is one of total irony:

The self isn't supposed to lack confidence, and the blame game isn't able to be misplaced.
Art is the manifestation of boundaries upon a reality which is formless due to its continuity and change. To manifest boundaries upon that which has none, reality, is the separate reality thus resulting in illusion. Illusion is seperativeness.

Continuity and change, or just continuity is a contradiction-science, in the context which you reference it.

When you say "the separate reality", after "reality", are you identifying the command to separate reality, or just identifying the separate reality as an identity?
Eodnhoj7
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Imagination, Art and Formlessness

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

trokanmariel wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:52 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:20 am
trokanmariel wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 12:38 am

"Part of it is egotistical in an effort to control the unknowable"

The first part, is the self's lack of confidence in itself; the second part, after the word egotistical, is the misplaced blame game - the sequence, overall, is one of total irony:

The self isn't supposed to lack confidence, and the blame game isn't able to be misplaced.
Art is the manifestation of boundaries upon a reality which is formless due to its continuity and change. To manifest boundaries upon that which has none, reality, is the separate reality thus resulting in illusion. Illusion is seperativeness.

Continuity and change, or just continuity is a contradiction-science, in the context which you reference it.

When you say "the separate reality", after "reality", are you identifying the command to separate reality, or just identifying the separate reality as an identity?
Continuous change is formlessness. To impose a fixed perception of it through art is to contradict that reality. However this contradiction is part of reality as well, given it exists, therefore reality is a contradiction.

Art is the manifestation of boundaries thus a manifestation of separitiveness. This separitiveness is an illusion as it is not the whole of reality.
trokanmariel
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Re: Imagination, Art and Formlessness

Post by trokanmariel »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 11:40 pm
trokanmariel wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:52 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:20 am

Art is the manifestation of boundaries upon a reality which is formless due to its continuity and change. To manifest boundaries upon that which has none, reality, is the separate reality thus resulting in illusion. Illusion is seperativeness.

Continuity and change, or just continuity is a contradiction-science, in the context which you reference it.

When you say "the separate reality", after "reality", are you identifying the command to separate reality, or just identifying the separate reality as an identity?
Continuous change is formlessness. To impose a fixed perception of it through art is to contradict that reality. However this contradiction is part of reality as well, given it exists, therefore reality is a contradiction.

Art is the manifestation of boundaries thus a manifestation of separitiveness. This separitiveness is an illusion as it is not the whole of reality.


Only if the premise of reality is the necessity of an observer, is reality a contradiction. Regardless of the macro identity of that observation, the statement is a correct follow-up to your own statement
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Imagination, Art and Formlessness

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

trokanmariel wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:44 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 11:40 pm
trokanmariel wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:52 pm


Continuity and change, or just continuity is a contradiction-science, in the context which you reference it.

When you say "the separate reality", after "reality", are you identifying the command to separate reality, or just identifying the separate reality as an identity?
Continuous change is formlessness. To impose a fixed perception of it through art is to contradict that reality. However this contradiction is part of reality as well, given it exists, therefore reality is a contradiction.

Art is the manifestation of boundaries thus a manifestation of separitiveness. This separitiveness is an illusion as it is not the whole of reality.


Only if the premise of reality is the necessity of an observer, is reality a contradiction. Regardless of the macro identity of that observation, the statement is a correct follow-up to your own statement
The mirror effect of the observer observing the observed necessitates a contradiction given a new reality, that of the thought, results from the subject reflecting on the object. Observation is multiplication, multiplication is multiplicity, multiplicity is distinctiveness through opposition.
trokanmariel
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Re: Imagination, Art and Formlessness

Post by trokanmariel »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:48 am
trokanmariel wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:44 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 11:40 pm

Continuous change is formlessness. To impose a fixed perception of it through art is to contradict that reality. However this contradiction is part of reality as well, given it exists, therefore reality is a contradiction.

Art is the manifestation of boundaries thus a manifestation of separitiveness. This separitiveness is an illusion as it is not the whole of reality.


Only if the premise of reality is the necessity of an observer, is reality a contradiction. Regardless of the macro identity of that observation, the statement is a correct follow-up to your own statement
The mirror effect of the observer observing the observed necessitates a contradiction given a new reality, that of the thought, results from the subject reflecting on the object. Observation is multiplication, multiplication is multiplicity, multiplicity is distinctiveness through opposition.

The that of the thought aspect is a window of opportunity, into the overall aspect, which is a professional one, because of thought as concept not being observation
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Imagination, Art and Formlessness

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

trokanmariel wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:00 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:48 am
trokanmariel wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:44 am



Only if the premise of reality is the necessity of an observer, is reality a contradiction. Regardless of the macro identity of that observation, the statement is a correct follow-up to your own statement
The mirror effect of the observer observing the observed necessitates a contradiction given a new reality, that of the thought, results from the subject reflecting on the object. Observation is multiplication, multiplication is multiplicity, multiplicity is distinctiveness through opposition.

The that of the thought aspect is a window of opportunity, into the overall aspect, which is a professional one, because of thought as concept not being observation
Observation results in thoughts, thoughts are observed, thus thoughts result in further thoughts. The multiplication of thoughts is the multiplication of distinction thus contradiction.
trokanmariel
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:35 am

Re: Imagination, Art and Formlessness

Post by trokanmariel »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:44 pm
trokanmariel wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:00 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:48 am

The mirror effect of the observer observing the observed necessitates a contradiction given a new reality, that of the thought, results from the subject reflecting on the object. Observation is multiplication, multiplication is multiplicity, multiplicity is distinctiveness through opposition.

The that of the thought aspect is a window of opportunity, into the overall aspect, which is a professional one, because of thought as concept not being observation
Observation results in thoughts, thoughts are observed, thus thoughts result in further thoughts. The multiplication of thoughts is the multiplication of distinction thus contradiction.

Can thoughts be observed? I must admit, that that's a pretty intriguing idea.
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